TMIT 25: Culture Eats Parenting for Breakfast

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The reason that we're talking a
lot about leadership and

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management is we're we're
finally clear, I think in our

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vocabulary.
Only 25 episodes in, but you

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know better late than.
Never.

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That's right.
Well.

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We're just getting started.
We we needed the right analogy

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and I think we have it here.
And it comes from Claire Hughes

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Johnson in her book Scaling
People, where she says

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leadership is about driving
change while management is about

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creating stability.
And so to us, parenting is a lot

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like management creating
stability through routines,

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whereas culture is building the
leadership into the family.

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This is where we are putting our
foot forward and talking about

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how we're going to define who we
are and what we do, even when no

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one is watching.
Welcome to The Most Important

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Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.

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And I'm Greg Neufeld.
Together, we're exploring how

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ambitious busy families can
build culture at home.

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Because after all, family is the
most important thing.

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Hi, everybody.
Hi, Craig.

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Hello.
Hello.

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How you doing?
We meet again.

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That's right, Happy Monday.
Yeah, I'm doing OK.

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It's the last week of August and
our kids are back in school.

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It's crazy.
Yeah, I know, right?

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Time's flying.
It's yeah.

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So the first week went pretty
well.

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Yeah, Maverick is homesick today
because of all those preschool

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kid germs.
But that's OK.

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I think we're both fighting the
good fight against the germs.

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Need a calendar reminder to
build in a sick buffer for us

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and for the family.
As soon as everyone go, it comes

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back from a break.
I wanted just to circle back on

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our Dopamine Mote episode from
last week and mention how we are

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reducing audio book usage after
reflecting upon it further.

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So the girls were listening to
their audio books every day for

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30 to 40 minutes, plus an hour
or so on the weekends, and it

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just stopped serving us.
We realized during the first

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week of school they were kind of
obsessive about it, right?

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Yeah, ever since we came back
from that trip.

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I mean, part of it I think is
really enthralling books for

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them.
You know, they they love this

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series.
What's it called?

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Upside down magic, but that's
hunter Jade just listens to I

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mean listen, I think it's great
content.

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They they love upside down magic
and the whatever after series.

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Sarah Malinowski.
Thank you.

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She's one of three authors in
the other one.

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But it's just, it goes to show
me that almost anything can be

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used to hijack dopamine, right?
Even something as plain vanilla,

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like inoffensive in today's
world as an audio book.

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It's not so much about the
outside thing and it's about how

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they're behaving around it,
right?

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And so the second that they got
home, they wanted to turn on

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their audio books.
And when it wasn't working one

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day, Hunter had like a complete
meltdown, right?

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And I realized that in this back
to school time, we need to hold

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space for their emotions, not
the audio book that just kind of

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stifles it or suppresses it or,
or puts it on pause.

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So we're trying something new,
which is, you know, no audio

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book after school.
And we'll see how that goes.

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We did it for a couple of days
last week.

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We built a little menu, as we do
on school to home transition

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options.
So today they're going to the

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library after school instead of
coming straight home.

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But the point is, I'm grateful
for that episode because I think

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that even though the kids don't
regularly watch screens, there's

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still a lot of other ways to
hijack dopamine, and it's more

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about watching for the way that
a person responds to it, and

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ourselves included, as opposed
to the thing itself.

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Yeah, anything that's hijacking
your dopamine lately.

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I think social media has been a
really interesting thing for us

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both since starting.
The most important thing because

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previously I didn't even use
Instagram except to peep on

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housewives sometimes and barely
used Facebook, right?

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And so now we're finding
ourselves in the social media

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mix more than ever.
And I'm trying to use it as a

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way to learn things and kind of
study the behavior of others.

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I mean that sounds creepy like.
Learn from, learn, learn best

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practices.
Yeah, learn best practices.

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What looks beautiful?
What do I like?

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What do I actually find
informative from folks that I

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hope will become our peers one
day when it comes to, you know,

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having a message like the most
important thing out there, but I

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end up failing a lot.
I just want to say that like,

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I'm like, oh, I'm on here
because I'm going to look at how

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this really, you know, big
influencer is doing these

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beautiful posts.
And then before I know it, I'm

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like in a very deep rabbit hole
of things that I don't even, I

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couldn't even tell you what they
are.

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I don't know.
And then I have to pull myself

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out.
So it's a it's a daily.

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It's a daily fight.
There's a reason why I didn't

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use social media prior to this,
but I'm learning to, as with

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many things, not be so black and
white about it and kind of live

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in that Gray anyway.
OK, so I do want to talk about

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something that we both saw over
the weekend that I think is

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worth talking about.
OK, so Gallup recently released

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their annual consumption habits
survey where they took a look at

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Americans over the course of the
month of July, and they found

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that 54% of US adults now report
that they drink alcohol, which

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is the lowest rate in nearly 90
years.

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Wow.
It's interesting for a a couple

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of reasons.
One, I think it operates.

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It's my recollection.
My recollection is that the band

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is like the high is like 1978,
seventy, 1% or something like

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that.
And then this is the lowest it's

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ever recorded.
But that's 57%.

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So we're still talking 54%.
So we're still talking, you

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know, a relatively tight band of
alcohol drinkers, but it's on

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the decline and it looks like
it's going lower.

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That's right.
It was a 13 percentage point

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drop from 2022 levels.
So 67% of adults drank alcohol

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in 2022 versus 54% today.
Do you have the drivers there

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'cause I?
I like it.

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Looks like the sharpest declines
have been among young adults,

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women and Republicans.
Right.

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Yeah, that's what I saw.
Republicans.

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Yeah.
So it says that Democrats

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drinking stayed relatively
steady, but that women's

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drinking is down 11 points in
one year.

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It's now at 51% versus 62% for
males.

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But probably the craziest stat,
I think, is that only 50% of

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those aged 18 to 34 drink
alcohol, versus 72% in 2004.

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That's a huge drop.
Huge A.

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Little bit sad from from my
perspective, Not that I think

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that unhealthy drinking is worth
celebrating.

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I I don't think either of us
have had a drink in over a year

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now, right?
I had one in February but it was

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a terrible experience.
Right.

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And before that, I mean, we've
probably had a dozen drinks in

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the past three years.
Yeah, right.

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Right.
The the impetus for me is is

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obviously health, but it's not
like long term health as much as

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it is just feeling my best with
young kids.

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But when I had plenty of time to
not feel so good, I think it was

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pretty important, especially
early in my career.

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Like I used to host hundreds of
people for our work events at

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the standard beer garden.
You know, everyone, every single

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person having a mug of beer at
least during that time, usually

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3 or 4 and everybody leaving
with new contacts, new

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friendships, new relationships,
etcetera.

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And I think that New York is
still, I would, I would say

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based on what we saw see in the
data, probably index is higher

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in terms of young people
drinking.

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But I think it's a big miss if
if this isn't substituted with

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something else that's equally
like unhealthy and socially

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lubricating.
Yeah, I agree.

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I mean, on the one hand, I know
that I guess more strongly than

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ever before, that alcohol is
poison for your brain.

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And on the other hand, I'm so
glad that I did not get that

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message in my 20s because it was
so much fun.

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So much fun.
And I don't think we would have

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met if it hadn't been for
alcohol.

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I mean, the friends that I met
you through were my drinking

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friends.
Why else would I be out at that

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late on?
A But even that, like, I

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wouldn't know those people, and
you probably wouldn't know those

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people if we didn't have a
shared love of going out and

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drinking.
You know.

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Wednesday nights, whatever night
like, so such a great social

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lubricant.
And yeah, I don't know that it

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is being supplanted by anything
else right now.

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It feels like we'd have to look
up this further.

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But like, it really does feel
like this is more of the

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isolation, the loneliness, the
depression and the anxiety that

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we're seeing that not drinking
is in some ways I feel like

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drinking was healthy, was
healthy for me.

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It was it was adaptive.
It was socially important to my

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to my experience.
Yeah, and in a way, at least for

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me to enjoying what I do for
work, because a lot of my

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drinking in New York was around
work.

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It was like, like I was was
taught this, you know, this

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Pavlovian thing, which is like
work equals fun because I get to

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go out after 5:00 and have
drinks with people in my

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industry, talk to them, like
meet more people and follow up

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with them during the daytime the
next day.

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I see.
You know, like in a microcosm,

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like the way that you and I met
was through work.

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Yeah, we're definitely like,
whatever that means that like,

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you are sexually attracted to
someone because of, like, their

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brain.
Like, there's definitely one of

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those things going on for us.
But also, yeah, I mean, for me,

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I think it was also like
building this 3 dimensional

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person.
You know, if I just saw someone

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in a meeting during the day
across the table, it was not

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nearly as connecting right as
going out with them socially.

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And I if we were both sober, I
don't think that the

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conversations would have been
the same.

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No, it's it's a bummer I saw
this tweet.

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It was a VC who said I had a
poker night at our office.

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You know, beer and wine were
served.

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Not a single beer was open.
I understand that drinking is

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unhealthy, but man, am I glad
that I did in my 20s and 30s.

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And like, yeah, Amen.
That really resonates with me

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for sure.
So what does that mean?

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I mean, I guess do we encourage
our children to drink?

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We're a little bit early on, but
I think that this idea that

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alcohol is poison, while while
true and that there's no amount

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of safe alcohol out there, I it
is one of those kind of cost

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benefit analysis things to think
about further.

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I personally am grateful that I
moderately drank really until

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COVID.
Me too.

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And I don't think that my
drinking days are over.

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I just think that right now it
doesn't really serve me.

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And by the time our kids are in
college, I'll probably want to

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be drinking with them.
Even if they're, you know,

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saying, hey, I'm going to have
one with you and then go meet my

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friends.
Like, I'll take it.

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Oh, that's fun.
I like that.

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Yeah, OK.
I see some posts from family

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that are whose kids are recently
in college and they're all

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cheers in one another, like on
family vacation or whatever.

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Like that seems like a great
connection point that you kind

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of only get to have once in your
life.

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You know, I'm, I'm not going to
shun alcohol and say that it's

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complete lethal poison because
here I am standing and I just

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think that it's a lot of people
end up having problems with it

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if they're not happy with who
they are.

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Sure.
Yeah.

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So it'll be interesting to
continue to follow this and see

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how it plays out over time
because maybe it's just the

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pendulum swinging towards the
other way and it will end up

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kind of optimizing in this in
the center, right.

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Maybe this is the low, but I I
wonder if we'll see fewer

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frequent drinkers.
Like one of the things that it

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00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,680
says is that the average number
of drinks per week is down to

228
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,920
2.8, which is the lowest since
96.

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00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,240
So, and only 24% had a drink in
the past 24 hours, which is the

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00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,720
lowest figure that Gallup has
ever recorded.

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00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,880
So I'm very supportive of that.
Like that feels like the right

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00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,760
thing that it should be.
I mean, everybody has to make

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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,240
their own decisions, obviously.
But for society at large, I

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would think that infrequent
drinking.

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00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,400
I mean, when you think about
historically how often our

236
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,560
ancestors drink, it doesn't seem
like it was every day.

237
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,240
It was for for most people,
right?

238
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,800
It was more like celebratory
around a solstice or an equinox,

239
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,400
something like that, like a big,
a big feast or festival and that

240
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,800
there would be there would be
wine during that time, but it

241
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,120
wouldn't be something that was,
you know, people weren't

242
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,000
imbibing 5 * a week.
Right.

243
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:32,800
Totally.
Yeah.

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00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,520
Obviously like the more
available it is to all of us,

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00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,000
like the, the more the
pendulum's going to swing in One

246
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,880
Direction and then probably in
the other.

247
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,040
I would imagine that GLP one
drugs are also part of this

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00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,800
decline and I'm sure they're not
measuring that.

249
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,920
Great point.
Yeah, I, I 'cause you can't

250
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:56,200
really drink on them.
I think that yes, and I think it

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00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:03,080
changes kind of your brain in
terms of what's important.

252
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,400
Oh, interesting you.
Notice that like a lot of those,

253
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,480
like a lot of the housewives
that we're on GLP one drugs like

254
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,360
stop drinking all the all at the
same time.

255
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,600
Yeah, I think that's, and we
know a couple people that are on

256
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,320
them and they're not drinking
right now.

257
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,480
So yeah, yeah, it's very
possible.

258
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,720
OK.
Anyway, well, we just wanted to

259
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,640
mention this because I think
it's something that is

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00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,160
culturally relevant.
Whether there's drinking going

261
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,720
on in your family or no
drinking, that's part of your

262
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,800
family culture.
Interesting.

263
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,800
Yeah, I think it's fair to say
that like a couple generations

264
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,440
ago in my family, like drinking
was the culture.

265
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,760
And so I'm really grateful that
I think I've told you before,

266
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,320
like your family did like
activities and they had hobbies

267
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,440
and things.
Mine drank and talked.

268
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,640
Like that was primarily the
thing that they did.

269
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,800
So I'm grateful that we are
developing other things to do,

270
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,960
but I still believe that there
is a place for alcohol from like

271
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,920
a celebratory standpoint or a
social lubricant standpoint.

272
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,080
And it's a great way to to make
friends and to really build

273
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,720
connection in moderation.
Yeah, well, you know, even like

274
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,960
we tried out some things early
in the game, like a weekend

275
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,520
babysitter so that we could go
out.

276
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,200
Oh yeah.
And that was pretty short lived,

277
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,480
but I know a lot of people that
do that and that means that

278
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,960
drinking is a fairly big part of
their lives if that's, you know,

279
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,920
perhaps.
So it's just a notice that I

280
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,320
didn't think about drinking as a
part of family culture until

281
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,160
we're here having this
conversation.

282
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,320
Sure.
Yeah, Without getting into

283
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,120
specifics, I would say that what
we're trying to create here is

284
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,200
kind of a love for every day.
Yeah.

285
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,560
Like we are so fortunate to get
to do 2 things now that we love

286
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,960
doing and that really do feed
our soul Monday through Friday.

287
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,960
So we are not kind of like A
Tale of Two Cities, my dad used

288
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,920
to call it like weekend warrior
kind of people, right where we

289
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,120
would like really we're not
grinding.

290
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,720
Maybe we were in our 20s a bit
more, but like right now we are

291
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:14,280
not grinding during the week.
We are working thoughtfully and

292
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,320
I think very effectively, but
we're also making time for rest

293
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,880
and healthy eating and working
out.

294
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,560
And so when we get to the
weekend, it's not like we're

295
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,440
overly exhausted because we've
been sleeping 5-6 hours a night,

296
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,760
right?
And so I do think that there's

297
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,560
this messaging and maybe just
reality that hopefully some, you

298
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,840
know, things are changing, but
that if you're working 14-15

299
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,080
hours a day, not getting enough
sleep, not spending quality time

300
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,480
with your family, even though
you want to on the weekend,

301
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:52,280
you're letting off steam, right?
And so we've definitely seen

302
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:57,840
that change for us kind of more
of like an, an optimal, an

303
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,480
optimal push seven days a week,
I guess, if you will.

304
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,319
And so that really gives us the
opening, which I recognize that

305
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,119
not everyone has that this is a
very, it's a very privileged

306
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,319
space to be in, right?
And so we have the luxury of not

307
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:18,720
having to let off steam on the
weekend to have more capacity to

308
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,319
be present.
For sure, it's I'm glad we're on

309
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,920
the same page about that.
I think we've, we've come to a

310
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,760
good place for right now where
we are with the kids, with, you

311
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,960
know, how old they are and how
we're showing up for them

312
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,320
because you know, that's this
is, this is really the time and

313
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,440
we'll get into in a minute why
this is the time.

314
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,680
Yeah.
And so for now, alcohol doesn't

315
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,040
really serve that time.
Exactly.

316
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,760
Yeah, totally.
Cool.

317
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,120
All right.
So today I want to talk, we want

318
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,600
to talk about culture versus
parenting.

319
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:04,440
And the way that this came up is
there was a, there was a thought

320
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,840
that I had, which was like,
family culture is not parenting.

321
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,280
And we've seen a lot of
parenting content and I didn't

322
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,520
really know how to address this.
So I started just writing like A

323
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,640
blog post on what family culture
is.

324
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:29,040
And it didn't seem to like sit
well as an, as a post without an

325
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,400
episode first.
And so Danielle was like, let's

326
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,360
turn this into an episode.
And So what I want to do is

327
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:40,160
start out by just reading the
first two paragraphs of what I

328
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,720
wrote, and then we can get into
kind of the meat of the

329
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:45,480
argument, if you will.
Sure.

330
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,160
That sounds good.
Yeah.

331
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,520
I mean, for me, I think that a
lot of this is about defining

332
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,320
what the most important thing is
and what we're doing here.

333
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,000
A lot of the initial feedback
that we've gotten, while

334
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,720
positive, has also been kind of
it's a parenting podcast and

335
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,560
that doesn't feel great for to
us.

336
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,600
Not that we don't love parenting
books and parenting advice, me

337
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,360
especially, but that there it's
something different.

338
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,560
And I think really trying to get
clear about why we believe in a

339
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,360
world full of Doctor Becky's and
Big little feelings that there's

340
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,720
still a space out there for the
most important thing that is

341
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,520
truly differentiated and
unclaimed.

342
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,280
This is our attempt to explain
the corner of the universe that

343
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,120
where we are staking the ground
and going on this journey.

344
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,320
Yeah.
And I think if we're doing our

345
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,120
jobs right, this is a whole
category.

346
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:41,280
It's not just us.
Because what I know about my

347
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,560
studies at in undergrad studying
business and organizational

348
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,400
behavior is that like the
organizational behavior of one

349
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,840
organization to another
organization never looks the

350
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,920
same.
But what does look the same

351
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560
across every organization is how
the intentional they are about

352
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,080
them.
When you come to greatness and

353
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,160
the same thing goes to poor
organizational behavior.

354
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,720
So in any business that is
failing, you will see a lot of

355
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,920
the same mistakes, a lot of
unintentional behavior, right?

356
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:23,120
And so I, I started writing with
this framework in mind and it

357
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,680
goes.
There's that old line culture

358
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,600
eats strategy for breakfast.
I've watched it play out in our

359
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,240
portfolio companies at Value
Stream.

360
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,680
The idea is simple.
It doesn't matter how brilliant

361
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,560
your plan is, if the underlying
culture, you know, the shared

362
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,640
values, the beliefs, the way
people act isn't right, that

363
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,440
brilliant plan is going to fail.
And that's the big thing we're

364
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,560
exploring here.
What if the same thing is true

365
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,160
for families?
What if all those parenting

366
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,720
strategies we obsess over the
sleep training, the discipline

367
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,640
tactics, all of it.
What if they're all just

368
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,880
secondary to the culture we're
building, whether we mean to or

369
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,960
not inside our homes.
So before we unpack this

370
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,760
further, I wanted to talk a
little bit about how we got

371
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,280
here, right.
So I think we got here pretty

372
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,440
similar to how most families get
here.

373
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,560
We say we're married, let's have
kids, right?

374
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,480
Let's have kids is an
interesting conversation because

375
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,800
it's a time based one.
It's usually built around time.

376
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,200
In our case, we were maybe 3031
and 30, about to be 33.

377
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,200
I think that I think right.
Yeah, I think I was still 30,

378
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,480
but yeah, yeah.
And you came to me and you're

379
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,280
like, OK, I think it's time to
start trying.

380
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,960
I said, Greg, I don't want to be
on birth control anymore and

381
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,400
let's just see what happens.
That's right.

382
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,880
That's what I said.
Yeah, and we had just gotten

383
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,760
Winston our.
I said that and then when I went

384
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,440
off the birth control, I had a
lot of hormones and I was like,

385
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,720
I am going to freak out about
getting pregnant if I don't have

386
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,200
something else to love.
I need to get a dog.

387
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,120
I had like stayed home from work
for like a mental health day

388
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,480
because my hormones were woo.
And I was like, Greg, I think I

389
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,880
sent you, you were at work and I
like sent you a picture of

390
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,120
Winston.
And I was like, we're going to

391
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,960
go get this dog on Saturday.
Let's find out if our landlord

392
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,840
will let us have dogs.
So I could always count on you

393
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,280
to remember exactly how it went.
So thank you because that is

394
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,760
exactly how it went.
And I remember standing in the

395
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,600
kitchen being like, no, I have
more time.

396
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,680
Like I have at least nine months
before we need to be thinking

397
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,480
about this and more like one to
two years based on what you had

398
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,560
told me.
Now not having a child before, I

399
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,200
forgot that there were ten
months for the gestation period

400
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,880
and that it doesn't happen
immediately.

401
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,960
So I was not doing my math
right.

402
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,840
And so I was like, scratching my
head trying to understand where

403
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,480
I went wrong.
And on top of that, I'm

404
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,720
envisioning my New York social
life like blowing up.

405
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,840
I'm just like, OK, what is going
to happen with, you know, my

406
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,520
sleep first and foremost, That's
the most important thing to me.

407
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,280
I'm not going to sleep.
Yeah, but in a different way.

408
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,640
I mean, because we were drinking
alcohol a lot and going out a

409
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,440
lot then.
So just to go back to the

410
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,360
alcohol study, like when you say
sleep, it was like sleeping in

411
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,960
on the weekends.
More of a work hard, play hard

412
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,240
kind of.
Exactly.

413
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,760
Thing, yeah.
And so I'm like, OK, what's

414
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,040
going to happen to my social
life and my sleep?

415
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,960
And then, you know, wait, are we
going to be sending our kids to

416
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,560
New York City private schools
like.

417
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,480
Where are we going to?
And I shudder.

418
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,400
Are we gonna move to the
suburbs?

419
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,520
Like, there's a lot of stuff
going through my mind here,

420
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,120
right?
Because this is what this is the

421
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,840
information that we're fed that
we are screwed when we have

422
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,240
kids.
Like where?

423
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,960
I don't know where that came
from, but especially dads get

424
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,440
fed this, this advice, like your
life changes, your situation

425
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,200
changes, and your relationship
with your spouse changes.

426
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,560
Like, shoot me.
It sounds horrible.

427
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,720
And and then Fast forward, we
have our first child.

428
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,880
Like it's not nearly as bad as I
build it up to be in my mind.

429
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,040
We don't have all the tools, but
it's just one kid.

430
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,840
Like no one tells you that
either.

431
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,680
Like it's just one kid, just one
kid.

432
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,960
When they're not even moving,
it's like, oh, OK, it's not,

433
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,000
it's not all that bad, right?
But just to get to the like, the

434
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,320
point of how we got here, then
we had another one and

435
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,440
everything broke.
Yes.

436
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,480
Right I.
Mean well with one kid we could

437
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,360
travel we could still go out and
have the weekend babysitter I

438
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,320
think that we did some things
right for us with Hunter as far

439
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,280
as like rye resources for infant
educares terrible name great

440
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:12,880
approach for us for the infant
toddler stages yeah we had we

441
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,680
had child care so we were still
working the same hours and it

442
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,280
was pretty easy and adaptable to
like continue going to weddings

443
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,880
in Palm Springs in Italy like
things like that were all work

444
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,080
fine with hunter in my belly or
in tow.

445
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,960
But when we had a second, I can
speak for myself, being an only

446
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:39,960
child, my brain broke.
Like I had such a hard time with

447
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,280
our second.
Not only did we have a

448
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,080
challenging birth and some
trauma associated with that, but

449
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,560
this idea of like dual focus and
having to have my attention

450
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,400
split between two of them at the
same time and like always

451
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,600
feeling like I was leaving
someone else out was devastating

452
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,720
for me.
And all of a sudden, there were

453
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,000
as many babies in the house as
there were adults.

454
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,720
And it just kind of tipped the
scales so that we no longer were

455
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,040
wanting to do or felt like we
were capable of doing the same

456
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,880
things.
Totally.

457
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,760
And we weren't.
I think the thing that broke us

458
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,520
is that we weren't doing it
together anymore and we both

459
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:29,320
realized that like 4 weeks in
and So what did we do?

460
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,680
We.
Went to the Mexican restaurant

461
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,760
across the street.
We brought our laptop.

462
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,080
I'll never forget it with Jade
and the bassinet and I guess we

463
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,120
had a babysitter for Hunter and
we just sat there for hours.

464
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,600
For hours, definitely crying,
definitely drinking.

465
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,800
I think so.
And I mean crying for me, for

466
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,040
sure, and laughing and trying to
figure out new systems and

467
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,880
routines that were going to
support us during the challenge

468
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,840
this challenging time.
But also I think how to get back

469
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,320
to to us.
Yep, absolutely.

470
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:10,840
And so I think that moment we
started, we planted the seed

471
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,920
around first principles approach
to raising children in Manhattan

472
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,520
and more broadly raising
children where we just were

473
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,200
questioning everything.
Like I think that you're the the

474
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,600
wry work that you stumbled upon.
Let us down a bunch of different

475
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,960
rabbit holes and somehow like
Fast forward, I remember we're

476
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,120
with a couple of our friends
visiting, visiting them in New

477
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,800
Jersey and we're in your parents
house.

478
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,600
I think your parents were away
and we're talking about school

479
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,760
and we were definitely drinking.
And you were like, what would

480
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,400
you think if we didn't send our
kids to school?

481
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,080
And I was like, what?
I think my brain broke.

482
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,400
I know just like I did when I
was like, I'm not going to use

483
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,360
my birth control anymore.
Yeah, exactly.

484
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,800
But little did I know, you had
been doing some digging into

485
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,320
lots of different communities
and pockets.

486
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:20,120
And I think that this is where
the idea of like culture versus

487
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:24,040
parenting first came about,
which is like, we have choices.

488
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,080
What are those choices?
Starting to question things,

489
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,280
right?
Which I think that I hate, you

490
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,920
know, it's an overdone phrase,
but like a first principles

491
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,160
approach to our family really
started to take hold, right?

492
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,840
I mean, if I may say, I think
that naturally I'm a pretty

493
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,480
great manager.
I really like routines and like

494
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,120
day-to-day check insurance.
And if there's a problem, I love

495
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,000
to solve it in a way that aligns
with my values.

496
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,640
But there were these moments
throughout motherhood, right?

497
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,720
And throughout really, I think
it even started as early as like

498
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,400
you and I getting engaged and
it's like, here's the path.

499
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,800
This is what you should do.
Like you need to have a

500
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,400
honeymoon in the Maldives.
You need to get married in a

501
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,040
very large ballroom in New
Jersey with sparkly diamonds on

502
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,760
the very tops of the giant
flower bouquets.

503
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,080
Like these were the things and
much to some of my close people

504
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,400
in my life's chagrin, like we
didn't do it that way.

505
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,720
And so I think that I'm always,
I've always been sensitive to

506
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,800
when there is a large kind of
influx of noise of of kind of

507
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,280
the traditional path.
It gives me pause.

508
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:45,160
And even though I want to keep
managing I am for I am forced to

509
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,600
really sit back and start to
think about from a first

510
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,120
principles approach like how do
I want to lead here?

511
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,200
Yep.
And I think that what we learned

512
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,360
in that Mexican restaurant was
that the goal was not survival.

513
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,240
The goal was having systems to
thrive and developing those

514
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,600
systems thoughtfully and
intentionally.

515
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,800
First it was just like, what are
we each going to do separately?

516
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,840
What are we going to do
together?

517
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,480
But then it was more like, how
are we all as a family going to

518
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480
handle this and where is
everyone going to show up?

519
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,560
Where is everyone going to exist
during the day?

520
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,480
I still think there's a lot of
management though.

521
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:27,240
Sure, totally.
But I think weaving in the

522
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,480
culture didn't start with family
culture.

523
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,680
It started with Citadel, right?
It started with value stream.

524
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,080
So when you were at Citadel, you
want to just like rehash what

525
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,640
you learned about culture during
the hard charging times of the

526
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,600
financial.
Crisis, but like I don't know if

527
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,080
it started with Citadel.
I definitely think that the need

528
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:04,320
for a culture as a foundation to
support me during difficult

529
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,840
times made it clear to me that I
wanted to have that as a family.

530
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,000
I mean, when Hunter was nine
months old, before we even had

531
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,240
Jade, we set our family values
and they're not perfect, but

532
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,480
they still live to this day.
As far as like wanting to be

533
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,440
intentional, we I think that and
I think this is probably a

534
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:28,280
relatively common family story
is that prior to four months ago

535
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,280
we were intentional in fits and
starts where we kind of had the

536
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,000
management thing down, the
parenting, we knew where to go.

537
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,720
The kids schools are great when
we have problems in helping us

538
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,840
develop solutions to those
things.

539
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,360
There are plenty of resources
out there around playing defense

540
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,200
I would say.
And like if I want to potty

541
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,760
train, how am I going to potty
train?

542
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Like what are my choices?
And I think that over the past,

543
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,600
this year really in particular
and since we've started the most

544
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,720
important thing, we've really
given ourselves space to

545
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,760
question how we want to lead our
family and continue asking more

546
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,680
questions from a first
principles approach.

547
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,360
So not what potty training
method do you want to use?

548
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,320
Which one fits with our values?
But do we even need to potty

549
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,480
train?
Right, I like that a lot.

550
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,040
What I noticed when you started
working with us at Value Stream

551
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,680
is that you had gone through
this experience, though, after

552
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,000
seeing this like hard charging,
Tiki, working together as a team

553
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,000
culture at Citadel and then your
next job that did not

554
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,600
necessarily have that.
The first thing that you wanted

555
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,000
to make sure that we had the
value stream were vision mission

556
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,560
values down.
And so like there's something

557
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,280
that has been planted in in your
North Star that if an

558
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,280
organization doesn't have those
vision mission values, there's

559
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,040
not really a whole lot to do
until you get those right.

560
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Yes, and they can evolve over
time.

561
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,400
But when I left Citadel, I went
to another hedge fund and they

562
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,960
were successful by most
measures, but when they fell on

563
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,600
hard times and things started to
not go so well, there was no

564
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,280
there was no core.
And when I pressed the founder

565
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,680
on what, what is your vision?
What, what do you really want to

566
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,440
do?
Like we are all kind of, it's

567
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,760
almost like there's a shipwreck
and like we're trying, we're

568
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,200
trying to figure out like,
where's the lifeboat, you know,

569
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,920
and like, what are the things
that stay true no matter what

570
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,200
fund we open or close?
Like what, what are the things

571
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400
that really matter?
And he could not answer that.

572
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,560
And I quit because I, I needed a
leader in that time.

573
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:42,960
Always.
I need a leader.

574
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,520
Like the juxtaposition between
my job at Citadel and when

575
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:54,160
things went bad, how we really
had a central core to, to keep

576
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,880
us afloat and to not only that,
but to motivate us to keep

577
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,240
going.
We had purpose, right?

578
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,200
We had, we had built purpose so
that when things started to go

579
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,480
awry, we still had that core
versus the the fund that I

580
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,560
worked at afterwards that
everything was fine and we were

581
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,199
kind of muddling along when
things were going well.

582
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,360
But when we started to have poor
performance and to really take a

583
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,239
hard look at what was under the
hood, there was no purpose.

584
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,880
And for me, that was just time
to get out.

585
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,960
And I noticed that in in that
situation with you and it was

586
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,360
because I had noticed it with so
many of our investments before

587
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,719
where the culture is the thing
that keeps the company afloat

588
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,000
during hard times.
And you can't build the culture

589
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,760
during hard times.
You have to build it from the

590
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,040
get go because, as Charlie
Munger says, the failure rate of

591
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,080
changing a company's culture is
sure to be near 100%.

592
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,040
So.
Interesting.

593
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,080
I guess I would question whether
it is has to be at the get go or

594
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,560
it would be best served to be
done during like peacetime, as

595
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,640
they call it.
Like as opposed to, you know, we

596
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,800
talk about peacetime CEOs versus
wartime.

597
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,160
I think when things are going
well is the time to build

598
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,760
culture.
And then I think it for the most

599
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,080
important thing.
We are finally at this time

600
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,880
where the children are old
enough and there's not any type

601
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,800
of like crisis looming or that
we're currently experiencing

602
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,960
that we can set down these roots
as a foundation.

603
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,560
So like this is not the podcast
for folks that are dealing with

604
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,360
a death in the family, right?
This is not the time for that.

605
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,480
This is the this is the thing to
take advantage of when things

606
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:40,520
are peaceful.
Yeah, the, the way that I, I

607
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,560
think about this is we're not
building a podcast coming from a

608
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
place of expertise.
We're building it from a place

609
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,720
of extreme curiosity where we
are probably the most curious

610
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,560
people about family culture that
I've ever met.

611
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,800
And so we're here to be a
sounding board for all these

612
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,320
ideas that we're going to throw
at ourselves, and we're going to

613
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,680
come back and share what's
working and what's not.

614
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,200
It goes back to that Paul Graham
quote from How to do Great work,

615
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,080
work hard on problems primarily
driven by curiosity, but notice

616
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,040
things that are missing where
you're on the frontier.

617
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,720
And so I think that that's what
we're noticing is just that as

618
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:27,280
our children move, as we move
from the time where great

619
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,440
stability is needed, where great
managers are needed to a space

620
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,520
where vision and purpose become
more important.

621
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,840
There's nothing really out
there.

622
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,480
And there's stuff out there in
business, but there's not really

623
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200
anything that brings that home
to the personal family life.

624
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,080
And so we're trying to figure it
out and, and we are doing that

625
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,280
in public and hoping that a lot
of people will join us because I

626
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,440
think parenting is great.
Everybody needs managers.

627
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,040
We need to understand how to
manage a home, but there's so

628
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,680
much parenting content out there
and So what I'm seeking is

629
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640
really just more balance.
Completely agreed.

630
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,240
So maybe we should define for
everyone out there family

631
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,320
culture and what it what it
consists of.

632
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,000
OK.
Do you want to you want to take

633
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,400
that?
So the point is, it's really

634
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
about building purpose and
vision, right?

635
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,920
And so as we know from our
recent reading in the book The

636
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,560
Culture Code about how to how to
build culture for high

637
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,840
performing teams, it comes down
to building trust, embracing

638
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,720
vulnerability and establishing a
shared purpose.

639
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,320
And so that's primarily what we
mean around leadership within

640
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,800
family culture.
But then if you think about it

641
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,920
from an anthropological
perspective, the things that if

642
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,440
you can compare parenting,
that's a very kind of responsive

643
00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:00,880
problems focused solutions
oriented kind of linear thinking

644
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,320
type model.
What we're talking about here as

645
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,000
far as building family culture
is much more proactive systems

646
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,920
thinking, maybe even design
thinking in the how the family

647
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,560
should really feel and what
should be remembered for the

648
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,160
future, both what are we
building in the present moment

649
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,720
and how will what is the feel of
our family that will be

650
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,840
remembered by all parties 25
years from now, Right.

651
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
And so from an anthropological
perspective that touches upon

652
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,240
things like values and beliefs,
norms and behaviors.

653
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,640
So like the unspoken rules of
how we act, stories and rituals,

654
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,000
the things that we do and the
things that we say repeatedly.

655
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,920
Social structure.
So we've talked a lot about

656
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520
family as a team, which is
something that we are trying to

657
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,240
do here.
Family is a democracy, but it

658
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,600
could be any social structure.
So the roles and

659
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,240
responsibilities that each
person has in the family, how

660
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:01,280
the mother and father interact
with one another, and then

661
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,880
finally, the physical artifacts.
So this is a place that I have

662
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,160
been saying to you, Greg,
recently that I'd like to have

663
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,640
more of.
Like one of the things that came

664
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,240
up in the culture code is just
visual representation, whether

665
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:18,640
it's jerseys and helmets or
trophies or works of art, things

666
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,560
that show us physically what the
family values.

667
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,920
Yes, absolutely.
So the reason that we're talking

668
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,560
a lot about leadership and
management is we're we're

669
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,440
finally clear, I think in our
vocabulary.

670
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,040
Only 25 episodes in, but you
know better late than.

671
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:37,680
Ever.
That's right.

672
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:39,320
Well.
We're just getting started.

673
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,520
We.
We needed the right analogy and

674
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,640
I think we have it here and it
comes from Claire Hughes Johnson

675
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,000
in her book Scaling People,
where she says leadership is

676
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,520
about driving change while
management is about creating

677
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,080
stability.
And so to us, parenting is a lot

678
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,640
like management, creating
stability through routines

679
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,040
whereas.
Culture is building the

680
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,600
leadership into the family.
This is where we are putting our

681
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,760
foot forward and talking about
how we're going to define who we

682
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,840
are and what we do, even when no
one is watching.

683
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,080
Yep.
And I think that that is an area

684
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,480
that not many have explored.
I want to mention though the end

685
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,520
of the culture code.
They when they talked about

686
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,840
building purpose, they talked
about two different types of

687
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,320
leadership.
One is the lighthouse method or

688
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160
the lighthouse approach of
leadership where you recognize

689
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,280
and define that you are at point
A and you are trying to get your

690
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,920
team to point B.
The other is leadership around

691
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,840
innovation and creativity where
we recognize that we are at

692
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,680
point A, but we are trying to
get to some unknown point B that

693
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,840
may never actually be known, but
certainly is not known to the

694
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,560
group beforehand.
And so I think building family

695
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,680
culture is really a blend of
both of those.

696
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,800
Like they mentioned that Danny
Meyer who is a famous restaurant

697
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,120
tour, 11 Madison Park, Shake
Shack, etcetera.

698
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,760
He is filled with different
catchphrases that are all really

699
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,040
focused on helping the waitstaff
operate as a team and what to do

700
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,680
when you mess up because there
are a lot of mistakes that

701
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,760
happen in the restaurant
business.

702
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,400
I mean, probably certainly in
the family as well, but that he

703
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,200
is constantly defining that
point B as far as what does good

704
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,240
look like, what does excellent,
what is the standard here?

705
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,760
And so to me, some of the things
that we have done like the

706
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,960
Neufeld family cheer or some of
our catch phrases there is this.

707
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,720
We are defining point B for you,
right?

708
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:50,320
We know that you can do hard
things and that you have to take

709
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,400
the leap before you can build
confidence.

710
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,400
Confidence doesn't come before
the leap.

711
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,560
Like these are the things that
we talk to our children about

712
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,640
where we're we are that
lighthouse.

713
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:02,520
But then there's also this
aspect of leadership at places

714
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,800
like Idea or Pixar, where you're
building for creativity and

715
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,720
innovation.
You're just journeying along

716
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:14,360
with the other members of your
team and trying to help them

717
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,640
surface.
Unknown point B And that's

718
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,360
actually the aspect of family
culture that's most exciting to

719
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,520
me is that I have a pretty good
idea of what our family would

720
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,760
look like if it was just you and
me running the show.

721
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:35,920
But we have 5 celestial beings
in this family that have so much

722
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,960
to offer this world.
And so I am so excited about

723
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,200
really, for me, figuring out how
to be more of that creative,

724
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:49,800
innovative leader and creating
the space for all of us to

725
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,240
really journey together to that
unknown point.

726
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:55,360
B.
It's beautiful.

727
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,240
Yeah.
I I can see the Pixar analogy

728
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:02,000
holds a lot better than the
restaurant analogy because we

729
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,840
don't have people shuffling in
and out of this family like we

730
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,320
need to build a place where
everyone can be a leader.

731
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,200
Yeah.
And I'm despite many, sometimes

732
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,480
even me, that believe to the
contrary, I'm not trying to

733
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,800
build a high performing
household.

734
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,120
I think it's much more
interesting to generate a

735
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,960
culture here where we have no
idea what's going to come up,

736
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,320
you know?
OK.

737
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:35,320
So that's a really good segue
into why we're doing this.

738
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,760
And I think a lot of people
would, if they had to guess,

739
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,680
they would say it's because we
want our kids to be business

740
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,520
leaders or start, you know, a, a
big company or cure cancer or,

741
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,680
you know, honestly, it has
nothing to do with any of that.

742
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,280
It has to do with back to what I
said when I had an oh shit

743
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,840
moment in 2017 when Danielle was
saying, I I don't want to be on

744
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,880
birth control anymore.
This goes back to I love my life

745
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,560
and I just want to have a great
life and I want for our family

746
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,360
to enjoy one another and enjoy
the time that we are spending

747
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,280
together.
While we're striving towards our

748
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,480
potential.
It doesn't matter what that

749
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,960
potential actually looks like in
the end, 'cause we're not doing

750
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,240
this for any future state, we're
doing this for today.

751
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:29,680
Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite
quotes about this comes from

752
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Doctor Robert Sapolsky on
dopamine.

753
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,280
But to me, this is life, so
maybe it's all dopamine.

754
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,520
But he says that dopamine is not
about the pursuit of pleasure.

755
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,360
It's about the pleasure of
pursuit, and that's what I think

756
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,320
about when I think about our
family culture and what we're

757
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,000
doing here.
It is the pleasure of pursuit.

758
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,280
Yeah, it really is.
Yeah.

759
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,400
And if I thought that, you know,
I don't know, being lazy bums

760
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,400
was going to make us happy as a
family, that's what I would do,

761
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,480
too.
But I know that embracing shared

762
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,440
challenges, putting hard work
before pleasure, like those

763
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,160
things really matter and really
do support satisfaction.

764
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,760
And that's what I want to live
in, and that's what I want to

765
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,880
share with our children.
It's not even about teaching

766
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,520
them.
It's about sharing and embracing

767
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:24,480
this with them as far as a way
to build connection.

768
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,240
Yes, that's that's all that I
care about when I reflect on

769
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,200
this idea of the family as a
team.

770
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,120
So for me, I don't want to be a
dad, I want to be a team player.

771
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,280
And I feel a lot more connected
to everybody in this house when

772
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,920
I see myself as somebody that's
stepping up time and time again

773
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,960
to play on the team.
Because I'm doing what needs to

774
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,640
be done in the moment.
Because I'm doing what I learned

775
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,800
in practice.
Because I'm trying out some new

776
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,280
things, some new moves, because
I'm working on myself and that

777
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,640
I'm supporting people that I
love in the process.

778
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,720
That is so much better than
picking up toys, right?

779
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:16,000
Just because I'm too not lazy,
but apathetic to enforce some of

780
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,600
the behaviors and social norms
that we want to put out there.

781
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,440
Like, it's a lot easier when I
think about this as me as a

782
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,160
team, as on the Neufeld team
versus me as a dad that has to

783
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,960
do dad duties.
I understand.

784
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,960
I like both, but I like to think
about it as I'm not the coach,

785
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,320
I'm the captain, right?
Like I'm, I get to be.

786
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:43,880
For a long time I had to be the
coach.

787
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,000
And I think we, there's still
times where we have to be in

788
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,240
that coaching role where we have
to skill build with the

789
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:51,960
children.
But there's a lot more time

790
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,120
right now where we get to be the
leaders.

791
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,000
And sometimes that even means
I'm thinking about Abby

792
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,840
Wambach's book, The Wolfpack,
which I love.

793
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,240
It's right over here, actually.
And she talked about how, you

794
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,040
know, sometimes her strongest
leadership was when she was

795
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,280
leading from the bench, when she
wasn't even on the field.

796
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,800
And so I think as our children
get older, but yet before they

797
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,480
reach true adolescence, we
really have this opportunity to

798
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,520
lead sometimes on the field and
sometimes from the bench.

799
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,480
But either way, kind of stepping
out of that coaching position.

800
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,680
I don't know if I visualize US
winning when I am doing certain

801
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,640
things that help the family, but
I can feel that it's it's that

802
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
same feeling of being on a
sports team and doing the next

803
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,360
thing to help the team win.
Sure, yeah, winning isn't

804
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,280
something that really even gets
into my opinion, but I think

805
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,160
we've made our point, so.
And so why we're doing this now?

806
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,000
Because we can.
Because life is good.

807
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,480
Because.
And because we're curious.

808
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,840
Because we don't see it out
there.

809
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,000
Yeah.
And because 90% of the time that

810
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,960
we will have spent with our
children will be by age 18,

811
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,120
hopefully that'll be a lower
number for us if we do family

812
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,320
culture, right.
But on average, us as parents

813
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,240
under the same roof with our
children, that's 90% of the time

814
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:14,600
that we will ever spend with our
children.

815
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,760
So I'd like to make the most of
that.

816
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,040
Sure.
And I don't think that we're

817
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,520
alone.
I think that, you know, there's

818
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,560
a reason why people roll their
eyes or bristle when you hear

819
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,800
about Doctor Becky.
Because even though she and some

820
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,800
of the other parenting gurus out
there have some really great

821
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,640
advice, sometimes it doesn't
have to be so reactive.

822
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,960
So problems oriented.
Sometimes times are just good.

823
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,640
But that doesn't mean that we
can't intentionally support our

824
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,680
family.
And that's what I think we're

825
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,160
sitting here to explore today,
which is when it is peacetime,

826
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,240
when times are good, what are
the things that we can lean into

827
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,160
and build with our family and
have fun together that will also

828
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,760
operate as support structures as
we grow.

829
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,400
Absolutely.
And how do we make little team

830
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,080
leaders out of our kids as early
as possible, giving them

831
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,760
autonomy, giving them things
that they can not just work on

832
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,600
to help themselves be better
around the house or more

833
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:21,040
helpful, but actually to lean in
and make suggestions about ways

834
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,720
to improve and and show up.
So you're talking about like the

835
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:27,600
family as the democracy kind of
thing, just letting them know

836
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,720
that they have agency within
this home.

837
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,120
Yeah, exactly.
And that's why things like the

838
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,520
family meeting are really
important.

839
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:39,200
It's not to have a meeting about
the family, It's to get the

840
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:45,400
family together once a week to
make that stick as a fun moment

841
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,960
of bonding.
Almost that like, it's almost

842
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,120
like, you know, a quick timeout
from the the week where we put

843
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,320
our hands in.
That's what the family meeting

844
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,520
is.
It's interesting because we got

845
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,240
a few people sending us their
family meeting agendas and

846
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:08,440
they're filled with a lot of
forced reflection, which I think

847
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,160
feels really good the first
time, but really hard to do week

848
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,000
after week after week.
Yeah, I don't know.

849
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,920
At least for us, it feels a
little bit oppressive, though we

850
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,960
do do some of that at family
meal on Friday.

851
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,440
Let's talk about our week.
But you know, now that we are

852
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,120
what a little over a dozen
family meetings in, I can say

853
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,400
that the the formula for success
for us has combined a moment of

854
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,080
mindfulness or grounding with
compliments and appreciation.

855
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,280
That has been a huge 1 going
around the table and making sure

856
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,160
that everybody feels
complimented and you know, the

857
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,040
snack in the game at the end,
like they love to come up with a

858
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,680
different snack and to play a
game altogether.

859
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,440
You know that sometimes it's 5
minutes, sometimes it's an hour.

860
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,080
And it's been a great forum to
to teach us all something.

861
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,200
Yeah, this past week Greg did a
great kind of financial

862
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,880
reflection on our Washington
trip 'cause it was a big budget

863
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,320
item.
And so we actually he put it

864
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,880
into notebook LM and had it
create an explainer video for me

865
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,280
and the kids.
And so during family meeting we

866
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,520
watched a 7 minute video just
kind of explaining the cost

867
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,120
breakdown of the trip and we
paused it and talked about like,

868
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,320
what do you think was worth it?
And oh, by the way, we spent

869
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,440
almost no money outside of food
and lodging in the national

870
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:30,840
parks.
And then as soon as we went to

871
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,360
Seattle, there were hundreds of
dollars a day spent.

872
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,520
And So what do you think about
this city travelling versus

873
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,640
country travelling?
And I don't think we came up

874
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,920
with anything concrete, but it's
just I think for all of us, you

875
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,760
and me, especially a really good
understanding of how we spent

876
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,160
financially during that time.
Yeah, they, they were into it.

877
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,120
I I thought that was great.
Yeah.

878
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,400
So you know that it's a forum
for stuff like that, a family

879
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,840
learning, not a place where
everyone has to show up with

880
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,840
prepared notes and.
No.

881
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,320
Lectures.
No lectures.

882
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,040
Yeah, No.
No role-playing, just just fun.

883
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,320
So that's what we're about here.
I think family culture is a lot

884
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:13,920
like leadership in the business
world.

885
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,840
We're building culture at home,
one day at a time, very

886
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:24,840
intentionally in public.
And we want to know where we

887
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,320
should be experimenting because,
like, we're coming up with a lot

888
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,680
of stuff.
But if anyone has thoughts or

889
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,800
ideas, even if you haven't tried
them yourself, we'd love to

890
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,080
send, you know, you to send them
our way.

891
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,040
We can be the Guinea pigs.
Yeah, sounds great.

892
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,640
I mean, for me, I think that
we've talked about why we're

893
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,320
doing this.
We have talked about why we're

894
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,520
doing this now, and this is just
an opportunity to share where we

895
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:58,040
see our niche and why it is
worth listening to.

896
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,760
The most important thing in
addition to all of the parenting

897
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,520
stuff that you do.
But maybe sometimes instead of

898
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,680
because it's not a time where
you feel like you need to solve

899
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,160
a problem and instead it's just
a nice space to grow.

900
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,840
That's right.
And so I think that does it for

901
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:20,960
today.
We can leave you with this

902
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,480
thought that whether or not
you're building culture at home,

903
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,320
it's happening.
So what are you going to do

904
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,360
about it?
Yep, cool.

905
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:30,880
Love you goosy.
Love you goosy.

906
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,760
Hey guys, if you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of

907
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,920
person.
Thanks for spending this time

908
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,520
with us on The Most Important
Thing.

909
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,440
If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to follow

910
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,840
us wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with

911
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,600
someone else.
Building family culture on

912
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:47,120
purpose.