May 25, 2026
TMIT 51: Why We’re Done Having Kids (for Now)
Some conversations in a marriage are beautifully straightforward. Deciding when your family is complete is not one of them.
This week, we are wading into a vulnerable—and sometimes confusing—space. In the years since our third child was born, the decision to stop having kids hasn’t been a neatly checked-off box. Instead, it’s been a winding series of conversations and a delicate dance between the head and the heart. For Danielle, reaching a place of "acceptance" about stopping at three hasn't always equated to "happiness," which has been one of the hardest parts of this journey for Greg to navigate.
To help make sense of the baby-planning complexity, we dive into the fascinating, and often surprising, science of family size:
- The Global Shift: How global fertility rates have steadily slid to historic lows (with the US now sitting at a record low of about 1.6 births per woman).
- The First-Child Paradox: The sociological research showing how life satisfaction reliably spikes when you get married and have your first child, but often experiences a dip as the logistical complexity of multiple children sets in (with three kids statistically hitting the bottom of the curve).
- The 4+ Kid Phenomenon: The surprising data showing that for families who cross the threshold into four or more children, life satisfaction actually shoots back up—perhaps proving that surrendering to the chaos has its own secret rewards.
This is not an episode where we share best practices or pretend to have a perfect formula. There is no manual for knowing exactly when your family is complete. Instead, it’s a raw, honest look at the biological clock, the physical toll of pregnancy, taking "one for the team," and how we are choosing to "live the questions." We are choosing to keep talking, stay open and curious, and trust the Universe with what comes next.
Listen to TMIT 51 wherever you get your podcasts.
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OK, so question for you, how
many children do you think leads
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to peak happiness, Peak's life
satisfaction?
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Well, I think a lot about like
the two pizza team from Jeff
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Bezos from it.
You're gonna.
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Make this into a long answer.
I think like if you need, you
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know, like in general, like if
you need a team, if you have a
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team that you can't feed with,
with two pizzas, that's too big,
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right.
So I think probably like, let's
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start with what it what
unhappiness looks like and it's
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probably something bigger than
that.
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So then you know, what feels
like, what feels like a team is
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probably more than one and less
than eight children.
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So it's probably the average of
that.
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It's probably 3 or 4.
Interesting.
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Well, I think that you know,
jury's still out because there
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has been some research done on
this, but it's not necessarily
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easily duplicated.
But the the most widely cited 5
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year study that came out of
Australia about this actually
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found that parents with four or
more children have the highest
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life satisfaction.
So while they often reported
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higher stress day-to-day, they
had higher meaning, more purpose
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and long term life satisfaction,
as well as stronger support
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systems that the researchers
believe dramatically changed
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outcomes for them.
Yeah.
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What is it measured over?
Like a?
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Five years, I guess the
researchers expected that
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parents with massive families
would be less happy.
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Actually, from what I could find
is that three kids is actually
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the least happy state, believe
it or not.
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So what it sounds like is that
there's this U shape in parental
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happiness.
So people that have one child
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are meaningfully more happy than
people that have zero children.
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So I guess what I understood it
to be is that single is less
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happy than you get more happy
when you get married and then
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you get even happier when you
have one child, but then you it
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starts to dip after you have two
and then 3 is that nadir, that
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bottom point?
And then four or more is where
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this life satisfaction seems to
increase.
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That's really interesting.
Yeah.
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Just I'm curious about this
Anyway, are you, are you
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bringing this to me to, to, to
ask me to have another child
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with, with science?
Not currently, no.
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No.
Not currently, no.
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I just think it's interesting.
Like there's definitely, you
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know, the whole trad wife
phenomenon.
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And I think Elon Musk has really
contributed to this as well.
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There's definitely this idea of
more kids equals better.
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More kids equals higher status,
right?
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And we're not having any more
kids, No, at least not out of my
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body and at least not in the
near future, right?
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And so I just wanted to talk
about that today.
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So maybe we should go back to
the beginning.
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Yeah, where do you want to?
Start remember that Christmas
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where we had we spent it with
some family.
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It was the first Christmas after
we got married and I was like
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Greg, I am so not ready to have
children.
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I do remember that.
And then what happened?
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And then you change your mind
pretty quickly.
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Like 3 weeks later, yeah.
And I was like Greg, I'm ready
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to have a baby.
Well, at least I'm ready to be
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off birth control.
Mm Hmm.
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I remember I still have a little
bit of scar tissue from not you
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changing your mind, but just
from me not realizing like I
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didn't play back the limiting
factor in our family plans,
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right?
So the limiting factor in what
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we wanted, which was multiple
children, ideally 3 or more, was
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like the age timeline that we
were working against.
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And in order to have babies
every two years, like starting
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when you were 30 made sense.
But I sitting there at 31 was
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like, I'm still pretty young to
be a dad.
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Like I've got a couple of years
before I need to be a dad.
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But I didn't think about the
timeline that needed to to work
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from like a just a genetics and
you know.
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Whatever and the gestational
periods.
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Well, not yeah, not even
gestational periods, but just
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like your your ideal window,
right.
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And I think that a lot of I've,
I've spoken with a lot of
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younger people recently that
said that their partner wasn't
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ready.
And I'm like, how old is your
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partner?
And it's usually a guy and he's
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like, and she's like 27 or 28.
I'm like, the best thing you can
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do is not talk about it because
in my experience, one day they
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will come to you and be like,
OK, it's time.
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And you know, there's, that's
just you counting down the days
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until that happens.
And once they say it's time, you
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don't really have a say in the
matter because you, you, you got
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to, you got to move forward with
that plan.
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OK.
Does that make sense?
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So the woman drives.
Also, that's just that
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biological clock is a real, real
thing.
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Yeah, well, I don't know.
I think this is a pretty common
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thing, but as soon as I went off
birth control, I had this
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feeling that I wanted to get off
birth control and just kind of
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see what happens.
But then as soon as I went off
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birth control, I was like, must
have baby, must have baby,
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right?
Bingo.
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And that's actually the thing
that I named to somebody
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recently is I said birth control
is this trap that keeps women
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thinking that they're pregnant
and so they don't want babies.
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But once they go off, their
clock starts ticking and it's
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like, hey, guess what time it
is?
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It's baby time.
Maybe we should be so flippant,
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'cause I don't know the data on
that.
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However, that was certainly my
experience, like 100%.
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And so then we got Winston,
right?
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Because I was like, if we're
going to be in this try to have
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baby thing, I want a baby
immediately.
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And that really worked for us,
right?
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And so we got pregnant with
Hunter pretty shortly
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thereafter.
And then what do you think in
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thinking about having Jade?
Yeah, I think we were on the
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same page about it being time.
Is that right?
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I'm.
I'm still stuck on this.
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I'm sorry.
I'm still stuck on this idea of
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a pill or whatever it is
creating this psychological and
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biological effect that makes
women who are on birth control
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think that they are pregnant
well.
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You mean physically?
It tricks their bodies into
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thinking they're pregnant.
That's why they don't get a
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period.
Exactly.
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We're and which means that
they're living their life in
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this, what I would call this the
latter half of their cycle, as
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opposed to like the very happy
and full ovulatory phase, which
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is extremely outgoing.
Yeah, there's something wrong
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with that.
Thanks, I agree, sucks.
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There's something wrong with
that.
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Like, I feel badly that we're
pushing our girls to just
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suppress that ovulatory phase.
That is where they derive so
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much pleasure, energy and
delight, you know, outward and
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inward.
Yeah, no, I mean, I really hope
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that neither of our girls ever
have to go on hormonal birth
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control, right.
So.
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OK, Yeah, yeah, All right.
I'm this is something for
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another day.
Maybe.
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My mind is, I've, I've thought
about this a bit and I've talked
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about it a little bit, but my
mind is kind of blown by by this
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idea that like so many people
don't want to have babies
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because they're, they're not
awake to the idea.
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That they.
Yeah.
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I don't know.
I think fewer people want to
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have babies today than ever.
I don't.
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I can't say for sure that that's
because of hormonal birth
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control, but maybe perhaps it
is.
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I mean, certainly right now in
the US the fertility rate for
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per woman is about 1.6 children,
which is well below the
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replacement rate of 2.1.
But globally, the fertility rate
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has fallen from five children
per woman in 1950 to 2.3 today.
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5. 5.
How is that even possible?
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That's an average.
Yeah, yeah.
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Oh my God, yeah, we're really
starting to.
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I mean, I'm actually more
shocked by the 2.2 to 2.3 today
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globally.
Like we have more children in
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our family than the average in
the world.
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That's that's actually
surprising to me.
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I I wonder like how much of this
is the spacing between children
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caused by women going back on
birth control after pregnancy?
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I don't know.
We are, we have really left the
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land of data though when you ask
these questions into the into
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the land of conjecture.
Certainly Anyway, we're really,
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I don't, I don't necessarily
think that spacing is the, I
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think it's delaying the start.
So for sure, births among women
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under the age 35 have fallen
significantly in the US, and
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births of from women ages 40 to
45 have grown.
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Sure.
Yeah, that makes sense.
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That part definitely makes
sense.
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I mean, I, I, you know, I feel
so much younger at 41 than I, I
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found my parents looking and
feeling at 41.
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So this.
Is part of the challenge that we
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have sat with for the past
number of years is that so?
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I had Maverick when I was 35.
He was a surprise, by the way.
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We were hoping to have three,
but we were not planning for a
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third one that quickly.
But I'm so glad it worked out.
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It worked out great, but I would
say after Maverick, it's been a
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journey and we haven't always
been on the same page.
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There have been days, weeks,
months where it has been
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challenging to not be on the
same page because we usually are
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right.
Right now we are.
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Interestingly, I wouldn't say
months.
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I think that for you.
I know 'cause I tracked it at
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one point.
You're right.
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Months if you string them
together.
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String them together but it
always followed the same cycle
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and so I was able to just sit
there and it instead of being
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like is this what we really
need?
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I was just like this is showing
up again this.
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Too shall pass.
Yeah, I would say there was a
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good six month stretch there
maybe two years ago.
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Now that more days than not I
wanted to be pregnant.
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I don't even want to tell you
that I wanted to have a fourth
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child.
Like my body and my mind just
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really wanted to be pregnant,
which is a crazy thing honestly.
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It's not that crazy if you think
about like how it should work.
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Like I, if I was designing a
human to populate this earth, I
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would be like, hey, once you
start, make sure that during
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this window you want it.
And then that window doesn't
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close, and that body needs to
keep regenerating, but not
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enough so that it's fully healed
enough so that it could have
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another baby.
Right.
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Well, I definitely did not fully
heal between children, that's
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for sure.
And that actually goes back to
201
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one of your primary reasons for
us not having any more kids.
202
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,880
Correct.
And that's the that's the thing
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that I was fighting nature, you
know, against.
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I was fighting against nature
with this idea that I didn't
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want for you to have to go
through this with your body
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again.
And nature was like, hey, Are
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00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,480
you ready yet?
Can you talk a little bit more
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00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,520
about that though?
Because to be quite honest, I
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00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,680
think that I really was in a
pregnancy, breastfeeding malaise
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for a while.
And I don't know that I was.
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I, I actually think that you
were more aware of what my body
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needed than I was.
Yeah.
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00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,200
Which is kind of funny because
usually you have the best memory
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when it comes to these sorts of
things.
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00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,280
But yeah, but when you're not
sleeping and like you got all
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00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,000
the feel good.
Ones of the nurse Another
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00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,360
beautiful design of our of our
human bodies is that you, like
218
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,600
you, forgot all of the pain and
suffering that you went through
219
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,600
with each child, more so than
the last, right?
220
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,600
Yeah, by the third pregnancy, my
body was starting to fall apart
221
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:45,640
for sure.
Yeah.
222
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,120
It was and I and I saw that
first hand and I was like, yo,
223
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,240
like let's let's not put you
through that again.
224
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,960
Like, not that you're going to
die or anything, but like, this
225
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,200
is this is going to take away so
much joy of what you currently
226
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,720
have if you do it again.
And the people around you are
227
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480
going to be missing the person
that is here.
228
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,480
Yeah, because of what you will
need to put your body through.
229
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,560
Right, Yeah, being a mom to
Hunter especially was really
230
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,040
hard when I was pregnant with
Maverick.
231
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,240
She needed, I feel like Jade was
so little that so she was, you
232
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,520
know, only about a year when I
got pregnant with Maverick and I
233
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,040
could I could still give her
enough.
234
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,880
I don't think I breastfed her
for as long as I probably would
235
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,080
have otherwise.
But other than that, I feel like
236
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,960
I could support her needs, her
waking up at 4:00 AM needs.
237
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,800
But it was really hard to be
there for Hunter when I was
238
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,280
pregnant with Maverick.
I mean, it's hard to be there
239
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,720
for Maverick now and I don't
even have more kids like that,
240
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,760
you know, kind of 3-4 year old
age is pretty tough.
241
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,720
But I guess what ultimately has
given me peace for for now
242
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,040
around not having more kids is
that you asked me at one point
243
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,080
when I was sobbing on the floor
of our bedroom around how I
244
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,080
really wanted to be pregnant
when enough would be enough.
245
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,760
And I didn't have an answer for
you.
246
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,200
And I still don't have an answer
for you.
247
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,920
And I think that that is, that's
the reason why for, for us 3 has
248
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,560
to be enough because it wasn't a
feeling like, oh, just one more.
249
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,160
Right.
It was like no, I just want to
250
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,040
keep doing this until my body
literally shuts down.
251
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,720
Do.
You remember that time that I
252
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,760
was on the phone with an
investor and we were working on
253
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,440
a deal and he's like in the
hospital basically.
254
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,280
We're very close to it.
And his wife is pregnant with
255
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,040
his 5th.
And I knew that he had four
256
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,680
kids, but he didn't tell me that
she was pregnant with the 5th
257
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,600
And that like it was imminent
any day now.
258
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,360
And I remember him saying to me,
I said, wow, like you've got
259
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,560
such a big family.
Like, isn't that beautiful?
260
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,320
And he's like, Greg, don't,
don't make the same mistakes
261
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,840
that I.
Do yeah.
262
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640
I, I don't know that there's
ever I have we have we have one
263
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,240
friend.
They have three children.
264
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,080
The the the youngest is Hunter's
age.
265
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,960
They're they're older now.
And she just has the gift of
266
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,040
like, she's like, as soon as I
had her, our last daughter, like
267
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,320
I was just done.
I knew that our family was
268
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,720
complete.
And I envy that.
269
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,760
I really do.
I'm like, I have never had that
270
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,160
feeling.
I am at peace with having three
271
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,800
and I, you know, pack 3 lunches
every day and I fill up 3 water
272
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,520
bottles and I'm just like, yeah,
this is like a beautiful design.
273
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,840
Like I love the the three, you
know, but I would be lying if I
274
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,800
said that I was 100% happy about
it.
275
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,760
But I'm at I'm at peace with it.
I could be a 2 pizza team by
276
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:51,360
myself.
I know I.
277
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,200
Was going to say it's a bad this
whole 2 pizza thing is bad for
278
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,000
us because we eat so much.
We eat so much, but.
279
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,160
It's a, it's across everything
like we are, we're definitely
280
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120
gluttonous a little bit when it
comes to like wanting more out
281
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,960
of, you know, this wanting, you
know, a second serving of that
282
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,880
wanting like our kids to be able
to do this in addition to all
283
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:13,920
the other things that they're
doing.
284
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,280
Like it's, it's something that
drives us, but it's also a
285
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,080
little bit of a character flaw,
you know, that we can't just sit
286
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,240
with enough is enough.
Right.
287
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600
We're maximizers, not
satisficers in a lot of.
288
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,640
Aspects refrigerator look at
like you look at you know
289
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,440
everything that we do and it's
not surprising like it is OK
290
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640
that you struggled with this
like that is not abnormal.
291
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,280
It fits the profile.
Right.
292
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,440
Well, I guess I always said to
myself, I want to have a third
293
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,520
kid because I don't think I can
be a perfectionist with three.
294
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,760
And that has been true for sure,
for sure, for sure.
295
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,160
But also based on like the
research that I'm seeing, and
296
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,360
this is not me trying to have a
fourth kid, but just based on
297
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,200
the research that I'm seeing, I
do see that.
298
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680
That's why the life satisfaction
increases because you like
299
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,160
physically can't, as you have
more children, be a
300
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,160
perfectionist, right?
And so you have to focus on the
301
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,119
longer term, have to focus on
the meaning and the support
302
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,800
structures that exist when you
have a large family meaning.
303
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,040
You can't do it all.
You know, I the other thing I
304
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,079
think about is this whole
Google, you know, how they were
305
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,280
supposed to have that 10% time,
meaning 10% that they're allowed
306
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,920
to have like just do whatever
they want and work on creative
307
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,800
projects.
Yeah, shouldn't say do whatever
308
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,840
you want 10% time, meaning like
focus on creative projects.
309
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,840
I also think back to like Hugh
Jackman always saying, you know,
310
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,560
just give 80% in your workouts
'cause you just leaving a little
311
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,360
bit on the table.
So whatever it is, I, I think of
312
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,840
these best practices and I think
that is what we have done.
313
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:54,000
And as you know, one of my 1, I
don't feel pulled to do too many
314
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,960
things in life.
I'm not like someone that has
315
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,560
these grand callings really.
But one thing I really truly
316
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:06,040
feel called to do is to foster.
And so as as you know, but just
317
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,920
sharing with everyone that like
our agreement is that we're
318
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,280
stopping with three, but that we
will foster when the time is
319
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,080
right.
Yeah, unless caveat, they make
320
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,800
it possible to have a baby in a
test tube until the age of five.
321
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,040
I'd take that baby out and I'd
be like, this is great, join the
322
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,360
team.
Tell him set the floor,
323
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:29,160
character sets the ceiling.
Let's go if.
324
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,120
We could program that child and
not have to take care of it.
325
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,920
Ages 0 through 5.
I would be totally on board.
326
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,720
Yeah, we're almost there.
Maverick's almost 5.
327
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,920
He's 4 1/2.
Every day is a struggle.
328
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,360
Every day is struggle.
But he's going to get there one
329
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,600
day at a time.
We're to keep him alive and
330
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,640
we're going to be there well.
When you have a child that needs
331
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000
as much as you're first, but
there's two others around.
332
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:55,720
Oh.
It's really.
333
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,720
Really if anybody has
successfully navigated this like
334
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,720
4 to 6 year old boy transition,
especially like youngest boy,
335
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,920
please please let us know.
We're taking, we're taking all
336
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,320
tips and suggestions right now.
And if you want one also for a
337
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,560
week.
If you want to borrow 1, see.
338
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,760
Let's see what it's like, yeah?
It's totally open e-mail.
339
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,600
Emails are open VMS. You know
where to find us.
340
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,240
Yeah.
So one other thing.
341
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,640
At some point during my
postpartum malaise, I don't, I
342
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,800
don't mean to say it in a bad
way, 'cause I think I was clear
343
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,680
headed about this.
You made a very clear move to
344
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,040
not have any more children.
With your encouragement.
345
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,440
Yeah, about how old was Maverick
when you got a vasectomy?
346
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,600
Maybe like one 1 1/2?
So I was still nursing.
347
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,800
You're still nursing.
You were sleeping again.
348
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:03,480
I do remember that.
And yeah, I think there were,
349
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,360
you know, we had just moved into
this house maybe like maybe I
350
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,680
guess a a year prior and we had
met a bunch of people in the
351
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,680
neighborhood and some of them
were older and everybody was
352
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,600
just like vasectomy.
Everybody that we met and I was
353
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,360
like, cool, sign me up.
And you said like, I'm never
354
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,120
going on birth control.
Again, yes, I did.
355
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,440
And you were like, you're going
to have to take this one for the
356
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,320
team.
Yes.
357
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,400
And that was the that was the
way it flowed.
358
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,040
You know, you said, hey, I'm not
doing this.
359
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,360
This is the thing that you're
going to do.
360
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,400
And I was like, OK, cool, let's
go.
361
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,160
Yeah, I think you had an easier
time with it than a lot of men,
362
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280
from what I understand from
Bravo Television, honestly.
363
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,080
I think, you know, if you're on
Bravo and you have a segment
364
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,880
about getting a vasectomy,
you're going to draw it out a
365
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,280
little.
Bit like Kevin Hall about it.
366
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,360
Have you convinced any other men
you know to get a vasectomy?
367
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,200
No.
No.
368
00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:02,960
No, but the push backs that I
get are like, what if they miss?
369
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,960
We're like, I, I never want to
mess with anything down there.
370
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:12,960
And I'm like, yeah, but like,
this is a really positive thing
371
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,080
that you could do for your
family and actually becomes the
372
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,680
gift that keeps on giving.
Well, it was the thing that as
373
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,680
we were kind of going through, I
was going through these ups and
374
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,840
downs and we were having these
conversations.
375
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,440
It definitely did put a block on
things, right?
376
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,040
I couldn't even like, dare I
sneakily get pregnant, right?
377
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,840
Yeah.
I hate to think that I ever
378
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,720
would, but exactly.
Yeah.
379
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,080
And that was that.
Was clear to me.
380
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,000
Yeah, but so you feel good about
that decision I.
381
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,960
Mean every single day.
Yeah, literally.
382
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,920
The gift that keeps on giving.
Just that freedom.
383
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:54,400
Yeah.
Yeah.
384
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,280
All right.
Pro Vasectomy.
385
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,840
Very pro, Very pro.
And so here we are.
386
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,240
We're done having kids for now.
But I do look forward to the
387
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,960
time, which is not right now
'cause we're still in the thick
388
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,640
of it.
But I do look forward to the
389
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,720
time when we can broach
fostering.
390
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,640
Yeah, more than just puppies.
Fostering humans.
391
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,000
That's right.
That's right.
392
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,600
Yeah, OK, OK.
Anything you'd like to add?
393
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,640
3 feels great to me.
So despite what the what the
394
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,280
research says, 3 feels like the
right spot for us.
395
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,000
Yeah.
I mean, given all the other
396
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,080
things that we want to do.
In life, climbing our own
397
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,440
mountains, traveling.
And at this point, I think that
398
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,040
ship has sailed anyway, right?
Because like the spacing that we
399
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,400
have is brilliant.
I love it.
400
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,440
Right.
It's a blessing and a curse for
401
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,800
sure.
Like I think that if we only had
402
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,440
had two kids now, we could have
gotten on board with, you know,
403
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,560
having a five year gap and then
having two more.
404
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,520
Yeah, sure.
So it works for us.
405
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,200
No, it works for us.
It feels pretty great.
406
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,000
It does, and we reserve the
right to change our minds.
407
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,120
Yes, so we're done having kids
for now.
408
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,280
Might have a.
Five year old, maybe 2-5 year
409
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,880
olds that are twins that we
don't need to adopt, just grow
410
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,520
them in a lab.
You're nuts.
411
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,840
Love you, goosey.
Love you, goosey.
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,640
OK, so question for you, how
many children do you think leads
2
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,240
to peak happiness, Peak's life
satisfaction?
3
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:20,000
Well, I think a lot about like
the two pizza team from Jeff
4
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,080
Bezos from it.
You're gonna.
5
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,840
Make this into a long answer.
I think like if you need, you
6
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,560
know, like in general, like if
you need a team, if you have a
7
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,640
team that you can't feed with,
with two pizzas, that's too big,
8
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,120
right.
So I think probably like, let's
9
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,800
start with what it what
unhappiness looks like and it's
10
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,240
probably something bigger than
that.
11
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,040
So then you know, what feels
like, what feels like a team is
12
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:49,120
probably more than one and less
than eight children.
13
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,120
So it's probably the average of
that.
14
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,120
It's probably 3 or 4.
Interesting.
15
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,680
Well, I think that you know,
jury's still out because there
16
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,240
has been some research done on
this, but it's not necessarily
17
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,160
easily duplicated.
But the the most widely cited 5
18
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,000
year study that came out of
Australia about this actually
19
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,520
found that parents with four or
more children have the highest
20
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,360
life satisfaction.
So while they often reported
21
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,880
higher stress day-to-day, they
had higher meaning, more purpose
22
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,240
and long term life satisfaction,
as well as stronger support
23
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,360
systems that the researchers
believe dramatically changed
24
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,760
outcomes for them.
Yeah.
25
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,120
What is it measured over?
Like a?
26
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,840
Five years, I guess the
researchers expected that
27
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,680
parents with massive families
would be less happy.
28
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,920
Actually, from what I could find
is that three kids is actually
29
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,320
the least happy state, believe
it or not.
30
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,760
So what it sounds like is that
there's this U shape in parental
31
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,320
happiness.
So people that have one child
32
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,160
are meaningfully more happy than
people that have zero children.
33
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,440
So I guess what I understood it
to be is that single is less
34
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,280
happy than you get more happy
when you get married and then
35
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,320
you get even happier when you
have one child, but then you it
36
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,120
starts to dip after you have two
and then 3 is that nadir, that
37
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,600
bottom point?
And then four or more is where
38
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,920
this life satisfaction seems to
increase.
39
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,400
That's really interesting.
Yeah.
40
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,240
Just I'm curious about this
Anyway, are you, are you
41
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,520
bringing this to me to, to, to
ask me to have another child
42
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,240
with, with science?
Not currently, no.
43
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,120
No.
Not currently, no.
44
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,400
I just think it's interesting.
Like there's definitely, you
45
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,520
know, the whole trad wife
phenomenon.
46
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,680
And I think Elon Musk has really
contributed to this as well.
47
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,520
There's definitely this idea of
more kids equals better.
48
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,920
More kids equals higher status,
right?
49
00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,840
And we're not having any more
kids, No, at least not out of my
50
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,120
body and at least not in the
near future, right?
51
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,280
And so I just wanted to talk
about that today.
52
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,600
So maybe we should go back to
the beginning.
53
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,080
Yeah, where do you want to?
Start remember that Christmas
54
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,360
where we had we spent it with
some family.
55
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,760
It was the first Christmas after
we got married and I was like
56
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,320
Greg, I am so not ready to have
children.
57
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,480
I do remember that.
And then what happened?
58
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,440
And then you change your mind
pretty quickly.
59
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,120
Like 3 weeks later, yeah.
And I was like Greg, I'm ready
60
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,880
to have a baby.
Well, at least I'm ready to be
61
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,240
off birth control.
Mm Hmm.
62
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:46,400
I remember I still have a little
bit of scar tissue from not you
63
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,240
changing your mind, but just
from me not realizing like I
64
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,840
didn't play back the limiting
factor in our family plans,
65
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,320
right?
So the limiting factor in what
66
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:03,200
we wanted, which was multiple
children, ideally 3 or more, was
67
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,200
like the age timeline that we
were working against.
68
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,560
And in order to have babies
every two years, like starting
69
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,240
when you were 30 made sense.
But I sitting there at 31 was
70
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,880
like, I'm still pretty young to
be a dad.
71
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,760
Like I've got a couple of years
before I need to be a dad.
72
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,440
But I didn't think about the
timeline that needed to to work
73
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,080
from like a just a genetics and
you know.
74
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,360
Whatever and the gestational
periods.
75
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,480
Well, not yeah, not even
gestational periods, but just
76
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,400
like your your ideal window,
right.
77
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,440
And I think that a lot of I've,
I've spoken with a lot of
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00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,960
younger people recently that
said that their partner wasn't
79
00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,120
ready.
And I'm like, how old is your
80
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,040
partner?
And it's usually a guy and he's
81
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,520
like, and she's like 27 or 28.
I'm like, the best thing you can
82
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:04,680
do is not talk about it because
in my experience, one day they
83
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,040
will come to you and be like,
OK, it's time.
84
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,680
And you know, there's, that's
just you counting down the days
85
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,160
until that happens.
And once they say it's time, you
86
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,120
don't really have a say in the
matter because you, you, you got
87
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,720
to, you got to move forward with
that plan.
88
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,400
OK.
Does that make sense?
89
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,360
So the woman drives.
Also, that's just that
90
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,600
biological clock is a real, real
thing.
91
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,200
Yeah, well, I don't know.
I think this is a pretty common
92
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,000
thing, but as soon as I went off
birth control, I had this
93
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,960
feeling that I wanted to get off
birth control and just kind of
94
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,640
see what happens.
But then as soon as I went off
95
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,280
birth control, I was like, must
have baby, must have baby,
96
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,920
right?
Bingo.
97
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,200
And that's actually the thing
that I named to somebody
98
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,440
recently is I said birth control
is this trap that keeps women
99
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,920
thinking that they're pregnant
and so they don't want babies.
100
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,920
But once they go off, their
clock starts ticking and it's
101
00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,720
like, hey, guess what time it
is?
102
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,080
It's baby time.
Maybe we should be so flippant,
103
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:04,240
'cause I don't know the data on
that.
104
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,120
However, that was certainly my
experience, like 100%.
105
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,360
And so then we got Winston,
right?
106
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,360
Because I was like, if we're
going to be in this try to have
107
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,200
baby thing, I want a baby
immediately.
108
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,480
And that really worked for us,
right?
109
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,000
And so we got pregnant with
Hunter pretty shortly
110
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,480
thereafter.
And then what do you think in
111
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,880
thinking about having Jade?
Yeah, I think we were on the
112
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,120
same page about it being time.
Is that right?
113
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,160
I'm.
I'm still stuck on this.
114
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,280
I'm sorry.
I'm still stuck on this idea of
115
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:47,440
a pill or whatever it is
creating this psychological and
116
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,200
biological effect that makes
women who are on birth control
117
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,560
think that they are pregnant
well.
118
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,240
You mean physically?
It tricks their bodies into
119
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,920
thinking they're pregnant.
That's why they don't get a
120
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,000
period.
Exactly.
121
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,000
We're and which means that
they're living their life in
122
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,760
this, what I would call this the
latter half of their cycle, as
123
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:13,040
opposed to like the very happy
and full ovulatory phase, which
124
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,000
is extremely outgoing.
Yeah, there's something wrong
125
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,480
with that.
Thanks, I agree, sucks.
126
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,840
There's something wrong with
that.
127
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,880
Like, I feel badly that we're
pushing our girls to just
128
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,000
suppress that ovulatory phase.
That is where they derive so
129
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,280
much pleasure, energy and
delight, you know, outward and
130
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,880
inward.
Yeah, no, I mean, I really hope
131
00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,000
that neither of our girls ever
have to go on hormonal birth
132
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000
control, right.
So.
133
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,840
OK, Yeah, yeah, All right.
I'm this is something for
134
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,480
another day.
Maybe.
135
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,480
My mind is, I've, I've thought
about this a bit and I've talked
136
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,040
about it a little bit, but my
mind is kind of blown by by this
137
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,360
idea that like so many people
don't want to have babies
138
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,120
because they're, they're not
awake to the idea.
139
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:02,000
That they.
Yeah.
140
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,800
I don't know.
I think fewer people want to
141
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,200
have babies today than ever.
I don't.
142
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,080
I can't say for sure that that's
because of hormonal birth
143
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,800
control, but maybe perhaps it
is.
144
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,720
I mean, certainly right now in
the US the fertility rate for
145
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,160
per woman is about 1.6 children,
which is well below the
146
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,800
replacement rate of 2.1.
But globally, the fertility rate
147
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:28,400
has fallen from five children
per woman in 1950 to 2.3 today.
148
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,440
5. 5.
How is that even possible?
149
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,440
That's an average.
Yeah, yeah.
150
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,840
Oh my God, yeah, we're really
starting to.
151
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,480
I mean, I'm actually more
shocked by the 2.2 to 2.3 today
152
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,800
globally.
Like we have more children in
153
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,960
our family than the average in
the world.
154
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,280
That's that's actually
surprising to me.
155
00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:02,920
I I wonder like how much of this
is the spacing between children
156
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,080
caused by women going back on
birth control after pregnancy?
157
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,400
I don't know.
We are, we have really left the
158
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,880
land of data though when you ask
these questions into the into
159
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,840
the land of conjecture.
Certainly Anyway, we're really,
160
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,240
I don't, I don't necessarily
think that spacing is the, I
161
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,040
think it's delaying the start.
So for sure, births among women
162
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,000
under the age 35 have fallen
significantly in the US, and
163
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,320
births of from women ages 40 to
45 have grown.
164
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,640
Sure.
Yeah, that makes sense.
165
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,280
That part definitely makes
sense.
166
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,720
I mean, I, I, you know, I feel
so much younger at 41 than I, I
167
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,600
found my parents looking and
feeling at 41.
168
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,280
So this.
Is part of the challenge that we
169
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,920
have sat with for the past
number of years is that so?
170
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,440
I had Maverick when I was 35.
He was a surprise, by the way.
171
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,560
We were hoping to have three,
but we were not planning for a
172
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:03,880
third one that quickly.
But I'm so glad it worked out.
173
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:10,400
It worked out great, but I would
say after Maverick, it's been a
174
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,800
journey and we haven't always
been on the same page.
175
00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:19,160
There have been days, weeks,
months where it has been
176
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,360
challenging to not be on the
same page because we usually are
177
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,720
right.
Right now we are.
178
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,440
Interestingly, I wouldn't say
months.
179
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,360
I think that for you.
I know 'cause I tracked it at
180
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,160
one point.
You're right.
181
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:35,720
Months if you string them
together.
182
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,040
String them together but it
always followed the same cycle
183
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,000
and so I was able to just sit
there and it instead of being
184
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,640
like is this what we really
need?
185
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,240
I was just like this is showing
up again this.
186
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:54,280
Too shall pass.
Yeah, I would say there was a
187
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,320
good six month stretch there
maybe two years ago.
188
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,800
Now that more days than not I
wanted to be pregnant.
189
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,080
I don't even want to tell you
that I wanted to have a fourth
190
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,400
child.
Like my body and my mind just
191
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,160
really wanted to be pregnant,
which is a crazy thing honestly.
192
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,560
It's not that crazy if you think
about like how it should work.
193
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,480
Like I, if I was designing a
human to populate this earth, I
194
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,960
would be like, hey, once you
start, make sure that during
195
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,400
this window you want it.
And then that window doesn't
196
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,760
close, and that body needs to
keep regenerating, but not
197
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,840
enough so that it's fully healed
enough so that it could have
198
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,480
another baby.
Right.
199
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,280
Well, I definitely did not fully
heal between children, that's
200
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,000
for sure.
And that actually goes back to
201
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,560
one of your primary reasons for
us not having any more kids.
202
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,880
Correct.
And that's the that's the thing
203
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,480
that I was fighting nature, you
know, against.
204
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,840
I was fighting against nature
with this idea that I didn't
205
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,280
want for you to have to go
through this with your body
206
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,720
again.
And nature was like, hey, Are
207
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,480
you ready yet?
Can you talk a little bit more
208
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,520
about that though?
Because to be quite honest, I
209
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,680
think that I really was in a
pregnancy, breastfeeding malaise
210
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,680
for a while.
And I don't know that I was.
211
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,360
I, I actually think that you
were more aware of what my body
212
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,800
needed than I was.
Yeah.
213
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,200
Which is kind of funny because
usually you have the best memory
214
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,720
when it comes to these sorts of
things.
215
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,280
But yeah, but when you're not
sleeping and like you got all
216
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,000
the feel good.
Ones of the nurse Another
217
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,360
beautiful design of our of our
human bodies is that you, like
218
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,600
you, forgot all of the pain and
suffering that you went through
219
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,600
with each child, more so than
the last, right?
220
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,600
Yeah, by the third pregnancy, my
body was starting to fall apart
221
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:45,640
for sure.
Yeah.
222
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,120
It was and I and I saw that
first hand and I was like, yo,
223
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,240
like let's let's not put you
through that again.
224
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,960
Like, not that you're going to
die or anything, but like, this
225
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,200
is this is going to take away so
much joy of what you currently
226
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,720
have if you do it again.
And the people around you are
227
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480
going to be missing the person
that is here.
228
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,480
Yeah, because of what you will
need to put your body through.
229
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,560
Right, Yeah, being a mom to
Hunter especially was really
230
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,040
hard when I was pregnant with
Maverick.
231
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,240
She needed, I feel like Jade was
so little that so she was, you
232
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,520
know, only about a year when I
got pregnant with Maverick and I
233
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,040
could I could still give her
enough.
234
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,880
I don't think I breastfed her
for as long as I probably would
235
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,080
have otherwise.
But other than that, I feel like
236
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,960
I could support her needs, her
waking up at 4:00 AM needs.
237
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,800
But it was really hard to be
there for Hunter when I was
238
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,280
pregnant with Maverick.
I mean, it's hard to be there
239
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,720
for Maverick now and I don't
even have more kids like that,
240
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,760
you know, kind of 3-4 year old
age is pretty tough.
241
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,720
But I guess what ultimately has
given me peace for for now
242
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,040
around not having more kids is
that you asked me at one point
243
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,080
when I was sobbing on the floor
of our bedroom around how I
244
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,080
really wanted to be pregnant
when enough would be enough.
245
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,760
And I didn't have an answer for
you.
246
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,200
And I still don't have an answer
for you.
247
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,920
And I think that that is, that's
the reason why for, for us 3 has
248
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,560
to be enough because it wasn't a
feeling like, oh, just one more.
249
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,160
Right.
It was like no, I just want to
250
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,040
keep doing this until my body
literally shuts down.
251
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,720
Do.
You remember that time that I
252
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,760
was on the phone with an
investor and we were working on
253
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,440
a deal and he's like in the
hospital basically.
254
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,280
We're very close to it.
And his wife is pregnant with
255
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,040
his 5th.
And I knew that he had four
256
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,680
kids, but he didn't tell me that
she was pregnant with the 5th
257
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And that like it was imminent
any day now.
258
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,360
And I remember him saying to me,
I said, wow, like you've got
259
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,560
such a big family.
Like, isn't that beautiful?
260
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,320
And he's like, Greg, don't,
don't make the same mistakes
261
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,840
that I.
Do yeah.
262
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640
I, I don't know that there's
ever I have we have we have one
263
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,240
friend.
They have three children.
264
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,080
The the the youngest is Hunter's
age.
265
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They're they're older now.
And she just has the gift of
266
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,040
like, she's like, as soon as I
had her, our last daughter, like
267
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,320
I was just done.
I knew that our family was
268
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,720
complete.
And I envy that.
269
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,760
I really do.
I'm like, I have never had that
270
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,160
feeling.
I am at peace with having three
271
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,800
and I, you know, pack 3 lunches
every day and I fill up 3 water
272
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,520
bottles and I'm just like, yeah,
this is like a beautiful design.
273
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,840
Like I love the the three, you
know, but I would be lying if I
274
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,800
said that I was 100% happy about
it.
275
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But I'm at I'm at peace with it.
I could be a 2 pizza team by
276
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:51,360
myself.
I know I.
277
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,200
Was going to say it's a bad this
whole 2 pizza thing is bad for
278
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,000
us because we eat so much.
We eat so much, but.
279
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,160
It's a, it's across everything
like we are, we're definitely
280
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120
gluttonous a little bit when it
comes to like wanting more out
281
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,960
of, you know, this wanting, you
know, a second serving of that
282
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,880
wanting like our kids to be able
to do this in addition to all
283
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:13,920
the other things that they're
doing.
284
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,280
Like it's, it's something that
drives us, but it's also a
285
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,080
little bit of a character flaw,
you know, that we can't just sit
286
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,240
with enough is enough.
Right.
287
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600
We're maximizers, not
satisficers in a lot of.
288
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,640
Aspects refrigerator look at
like you look at you know
289
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,440
everything that we do and it's
not surprising like it is OK
290
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640
that you struggled with this
like that is not abnormal.
291
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,280
It fits the profile.
Right.
292
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,440
Well, I guess I always said to
myself, I want to have a third
293
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,520
kid because I don't think I can
be a perfectionist with three.
294
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,760
And that has been true for sure,
for sure, for sure.
295
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,160
But also based on like the
research that I'm seeing, and
296
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,360
this is not me trying to have a
fourth kid, but just based on
297
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,200
the research that I'm seeing, I
do see that.
298
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680
That's why the life satisfaction
increases because you like
299
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,160
physically can't, as you have
more children, be a
300
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,160
perfectionist, right?
And so you have to focus on the
301
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,119
longer term, have to focus on
the meaning and the support
302
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,800
structures that exist when you
have a large family meaning.
303
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,040
You can't do it all.
You know, I the other thing I
304
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,079
think about is this whole
Google, you know, how they were
305
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,280
supposed to have that 10% time,
meaning 10% that they're allowed
306
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,920
to have like just do whatever
they want and work on creative
307
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,800
projects.
Yeah, shouldn't say do whatever
308
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,840
you want 10% time, meaning like
focus on creative projects.
309
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,840
I also think back to like Hugh
Jackman always saying, you know,
310
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,560
just give 80% in your workouts
'cause you just leaving a little
311
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,360
bit on the table.
So whatever it is, I, I think of
312
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,840
these best practices and I think
that is what we have done.
313
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:54,000
And as you know, one of my 1, I
don't feel pulled to do too many
314
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,960
things in life.
I'm not like someone that has
315
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,560
these grand callings really.
But one thing I really truly
316
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:06,040
feel called to do is to foster.
And so as as you know, but just
317
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,920
sharing with everyone that like
our agreement is that we're
318
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,280
stopping with three, but that we
will foster when the time is
319
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,080
right.
Yeah, unless caveat, they make
320
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,800
it possible to have a baby in a
test tube until the age of five.
321
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,040
I'd take that baby out and I'd
be like, this is great, join the
322
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,360
team.
Tell him set the floor,
323
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:29,160
character sets the ceiling.
Let's go if.
324
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,120
We could program that child and
not have to take care of it.
325
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,920
Ages 0 through 5.
I would be totally on board.
326
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,720
Yeah, we're almost there.
Maverick's almost 5.
327
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,920
He's 4 1/2.
Every day is a struggle.
328
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,360
Every day is struggle.
But he's going to get there one
329
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,600
day at a time.
We're to keep him alive and
330
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,640
we're going to be there well.
When you have a child that needs
331
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000
as much as you're first, but
there's two others around.
332
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:55,720
Oh.
It's really.
333
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,720
Really if anybody has
successfully navigated this like
334
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,720
4 to 6 year old boy transition,
especially like youngest boy,
335
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,920
please please let us know.
We're taking, we're taking all
336
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,320
tips and suggestions right now.
And if you want one also for a
337
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,560
week.
If you want to borrow 1, see.
338
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,760
Let's see what it's like, yeah?
It's totally open e-mail.
339
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,600
Emails are open VMS. You know
where to find us.
340
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,240
Yeah.
So one other thing.
341
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,640
At some point during my
postpartum malaise, I don't, I
342
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,800
don't mean to say it in a bad
way, 'cause I think I was clear
343
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,680
headed about this.
You made a very clear move to
344
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,040
not have any more children.
With your encouragement.
345
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,440
Yeah, about how old was Maverick
when you got a vasectomy?
346
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,600
Maybe like one 1 1/2?
So I was still nursing.
347
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,800
You're still nursing.
You were sleeping again.
348
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:03,480
I do remember that.
And yeah, I think there were,
349
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,360
you know, we had just moved into
this house maybe like maybe I
350
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,680
guess a a year prior and we had
met a bunch of people in the
351
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,680
neighborhood and some of them
were older and everybody was
352
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,600
just like vasectomy.
Everybody that we met and I was
353
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,360
like, cool, sign me up.
And you said like, I'm never
354
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,120
going on birth control.
Again, yes, I did.
355
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,440
And you were like, you're going
to have to take this one for the
356
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,320
team.
Yes.
357
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,400
And that was the that was the
way it flowed.
358
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,040
You know, you said, hey, I'm not
doing this.
359
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,360
This is the thing that you're
going to do.
360
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,400
And I was like, OK, cool, let's
go.
361
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,160
Yeah, I think you had an easier
time with it than a lot of men,
362
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280
from what I understand from
Bravo Television, honestly.
363
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,080
I think, you know, if you're on
Bravo and you have a segment
364
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,880
about getting a vasectomy,
you're going to draw it out a
365
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,280
little.
Bit like Kevin Hall about it.
366
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,360
Have you convinced any other men
you know to get a vasectomy?
367
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,200
No.
No.
368
00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:02,960
No, but the push backs that I
get are like, what if they miss?
369
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,960
We're like, I, I never want to
mess with anything down there.
370
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:12,960
And I'm like, yeah, but like,
this is a really positive thing
371
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,080
that you could do for your
family and actually becomes the
372
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,680
gift that keeps on giving.
Well, it was the thing that as
373
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,680
we were kind of going through, I
was going through these ups and
374
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,840
downs and we were having these
conversations.
375
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,440
It definitely did put a block on
things, right?
376
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,040
I couldn't even like, dare I
sneakily get pregnant, right?
377
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,840
Yeah.
I hate to think that I ever
378
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,720
would, but exactly.
Yeah.
379
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,080
And that was that.
Was clear to me.
380
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,000
Yeah, but so you feel good about
that decision I.
381
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,960
Mean every single day.
Yeah, literally.
382
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,920
The gift that keeps on giving.
Just that freedom.
383
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:54,400
Yeah.
Yeah.
384
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,280
All right.
Pro Vasectomy.
385
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,840
Very pro, Very pro.
And so here we are.
386
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,240
We're done having kids for now.
But I do look forward to the
387
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,960
time, which is not right now
'cause we're still in the thick
388
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,640
of it.
But I do look forward to the
389
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,720
time when we can broach
fostering.
390
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,640
Yeah, more than just puppies.
Fostering humans.
391
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,000
That's right.
That's right.
392
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,600
Yeah, OK, OK.
Anything you'd like to add?
393
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,640
3 feels great to me.
So despite what the what the
394
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,280
research says, 3 feels like the
right spot for us.
395
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,000
Yeah.
I mean, given all the other
396
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,080
things that we want to do.
In life, climbing our own
397
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,440
mountains, traveling.
And at this point, I think that
398
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,040
ship has sailed anyway, right?
Because like the spacing that we
399
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,400
have is brilliant.
I love it.
400
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,440
Right.
It's a blessing and a curse for
401
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,800
sure.
Like I think that if we only had
402
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,440
had two kids now, we could have
gotten on board with, you know,
403
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,560
having a five year gap and then
having two more.
404
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,520
Yeah, sure.
So it works for us.
405
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,200
No, it works for us.
It feels pretty great.
406
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,000
It does, and we reserve the
right to change our minds.
407
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,120
Yes, so we're done having kids
for now.
408
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,280
Might have a.
Five year old, maybe 2-5 year
409
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,880
olds that are twins that we
don't need to adopt, just grow
410
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,520
them in a lab.
You're nuts.
411
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,840
Love you, goosey.
Love you, goosey.
