TMIT Teammates #3: Noah Zaltz on Building Family Norms

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Hey everyone.
Today on Team Teammates, we're

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joined by our friend Noah Zoltz.
We met Noah through work.

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He's a fellow investor, deep
thinker, and one of those people

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who doesn't just nod along when
you talk about building

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something meaningful.
He listens.

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He asks better questions.
And over time, we realized we

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weren't just aligned on venture
capital, we were aligned on

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family too.
Noah's thoughtful, steady

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presence has made a big impact
on us, and we're excited to

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share them with you.
Hey Noah, how are you?

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Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me guys.

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Yeah, thanks for for coming.
This is this is great.

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It's a funny, it's a funny kind
of weird.

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I don't even know what the word
is to see you on Zoom in this

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context, right.
We're we're usually gabbing

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about something related to an
investment, but this is, I

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guess, a different kind of
investment and the investment in

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the family and the and in family
culture.

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So, so thanks for for making
some time to, to talk about

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this.
We'd love to start off, I think,

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by just talking about the the
big FC family culture.

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What is What is family culture
mean to you?

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Yeah.
I mean it's something that we

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hadn't thought about in those
terms, but we always thought

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about as it relates to, you
know, what are we trying to

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create here?
Like what is it all roll up to?

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And I think that for us, it's
about defining normal for our

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family and for our kids, knowing
that a range of experiences and

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a range of of ways of doing
things end up looking normal to

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different people.
We realize that our kids, you

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know, and I say this not totally
seriously, but they'll believe

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anything as, as your as their
parents, what we do on a

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day-to-day basis and how we do
it and then how we react to

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those things ends up forming
their sense of normal.

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And for us, when we think about
family culture now in these

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terms, we think about what sense
of normal we are instilling in

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our kids.
And yet it's a feeling, right?

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And it's so it's a little mushy
and it's a little hard to

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totally define, but it's the way
that we kind of think about it

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is if, if I like I was asking
you guys how your 4th of July

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was and Danielle, you said,
well, we kind of did it the

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Neufeld way.
It felt normal to you guys.

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It's a feeling, right?
And so it's the same thing for

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us.
And the fact that it is a

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feeling, I think it's an
important thing because I think

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being so for us anyway, being so
rules based and so sort of cut

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and dried about what must or
must not be done kind of misses

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the point for us.
At the end of the day, it's

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about how we individually feel
as part of the group and then

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how the group feels at baseline.
That's a great answer.

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Feels like you have thought
about this a lot and it's weird

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that we only started talking
about it when we launched a

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podcast.
I will say I had not thought

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about these things so explicitly
until you guys asked the

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question in advance of this
conversation.

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And I have to say, even the
exercise of answering the

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question in my mind has been
hugely valuable and really

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interesting for Tara and I to
engage on how would we answer

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that question?
Because it becomes such a a

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feeling between you and your
partner as your guiding your

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family that sometimes you don't
say these things out loud.

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Yeah, totally make the implicit
explicit, my Claire Hughes

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Johnson ISM that I think really
can be applied to so many areas

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of life, but definitely when it
comes to culture conversations

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and conversations between
husband and wife, mom and dad.

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Totally, Yeah.
How much of your kind of making

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things normal and what is normal
from your family is a replica

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from your family of origins?
And how much is kind of charting

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new courses?
And also I'd ask like how often

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do you immediately see eye to
eye you and Tara versus have

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kind of more of a rumble type
dialogue and finding something

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new?
So I love those questions

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together.
For us in particular, yeah,

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because there is so much of what
we are doing that does replicate

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some of my upbringing and some
of my family of origin.

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And a lot of what we are doing
is a little different from her

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family of origin.
And interestingly, we end up

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agreeing pretty quickly about
what we want and and the

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decisions we want to make,
partly because we don't start

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from the model.
I think we recognize that we've

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both been influenced in
different ways.

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And by the way, family of origin
influences for both of us are

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what to do and also what not to
do and taking those things as

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given, but but then putting them
to the side and starting the

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conversation from almost from
the first question you asked me,

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which is what is this all about?
Whatever the particular decision

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is, you know, when we're
thinking about how the kids are

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going to eat or what schedule
we're going to keep or bedtime

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or what's important to us in
terms of relationships with our

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friends and our family, with our
kids, a lot of those kinds of

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decisions don't start with the
model.

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They do start with the objective
for us.

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Can you give us a recent example
of something that this started

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with the objective?
So eating is a really

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interesting thing.
You know, how you feed your kids

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is a really interesting topic
for us because I think you guys

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position part of the the most
important thing scope As for

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busy ambitious families.
And so nutrition can be

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especially tricky for busy,
ambitious families because whole

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food, nutritious food, and food
that you think will be

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supportive of the right energy
levels and at the right times of

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day is not necessarily fast.
Yes, absolutely.

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And so when we think about, you
know, OK, we have, we have

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breakfast, lunch and dinner.
We have two snacks.

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How are we going to, how are we
going to ensure both of that the

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kids are getting what they need,
but also that it's not totally

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wiping, you know, our, our time
to do anything else that we're

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spending all our time, you know,
food prepping and, and making

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sure everything is perfectly
organic and all that stuff.

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So it's a balance.
I don't know if I'm answering

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your question, but I, I think
that the, the objective there

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being the right nutrition is
important for the right energy

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and puts you in the right state
of mind or not to learn to

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engage with your environment.
You know too much sugar and you

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pop and then you drop.
Sure.

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I mean, you're preaching to the
choir on that one.

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We are, we are a low sugar
household by nature.

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Yeah, we're a big meat
household.

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But so I'm curious, So what like
what have you come up with?

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What are some of the experiments
that you're running or ways that

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you figured out to kind of solve
the the problem, if you will?

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So I think that we are very
explicit about what is a treat

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and what is not a treat, and
that even if there are certain

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weeks that there happens to be
more treats, the designation and

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and the label becomes really
important for establishing the

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normal.
Yeah.

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So the implication is treats are
once in a while or kind of when

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we say so and not a daily thing.
Absolutely.

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The implication is also that
treats are not normal, even if

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they happen to be more common
this week.

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And so it's more the
distinguishing of what's normal

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for our family and in the case
of treat, what's extra special.

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But on other topics, it could be
what might be more difficult.

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There's the exception to the
norm, and we find that labeling

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the exception, even if the
frequency of that exception is

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increased for whatever reason,
helps maintain that sense of

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what is normal.
I like that it's are there any

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other examples that come to mind
about labeling what's abnormal

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or the the kind of idiosyncratic
versus the the salts way?

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The salts way, I like that it's
almost across the board.

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I mean, you know, not to be too
simplistic, but at the end of

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the day for us, three big pieces
of the baseline of the salts

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norm, if you will, are
nutrition, sleep and getting

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outside, doing something
outside.

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And so those are our kids have
come to expect that there is a

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there is sleep hygiene that is
we're relatively uncompromising

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on.
Same with nutrition, same with

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getting outside, except when we
can't be, you know what I mean?

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And we find that being
uncompromising against the grain

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or against such a strong
headwind actually creates more

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tension and stress and and less
comfort than labeling something

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as different and saying,
although it's not normal, this

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is what it is in the sense of
nutrition.

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It's a treat.
So you're to your question

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around holidays or around long
weekends, bedtime sometimes get

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stretched.
Maybe you have maybe we're

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actually suggesting you skip nap
time.

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Sure.
Yeah.

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That that can be difficult.
But if we label it as such and

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say we know this isn't normal,
but and then we can talk about

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what it might look like.
And then the following day we

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can say we're going back to
normal and shoulders drop.

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Sure, sure.
I really like that.

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It's, it sounds to me like
stating norms are important, but

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stating norms are especially
important to differentiate from

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when you are outside of the
norms.

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So it'll it's like a pressure
release valve really.

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I'm saying like, yeah, we think
naps are important, but there

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are some days where it's an
adventure day and that's just

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not possible today.
But guess what?

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You will take a nap tomorrow.
That's exactly right.

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I like.
It, it takes the, I say I call

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it a pressure release valve
because it feels to me like even

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when you're talking about it
feels like you're taking the

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pressure off yourselves.
As you said, when there are

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these really strong headwinds,
rather than pushing, pushing

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harder against the grain, you
just kind of let it flow and

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name that.
It's an exception.

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That's right.
And I, I love the word that you

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use adventure because we, when,
when we are doing things that

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are sometimes not the norm, we
often frame it in that way.

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And for us, what that does is
over time, particularly if it's

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just not the norm for now.
But there's no reason that it,

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that it couldn't be over time as
kids get older or as they become

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slightly more flexible in their,
in their way of thinking about

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the world doing those things.
And even if you call them not

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the dorm for now, allow them to
sort of stretch their ability to

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kind of regulate themselves
outside of their median day or

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outside their median experience.
So over time, you have enough

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exceptions to the norm managed
as such.

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You can look back and they look
back and realize actually the

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diversity of experience that
I've had if if I was going to

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take an average, might not
actually be what I think of as

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my norm, but it has allowed me
to stretch my norm a bit.

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And sort of expand a bit.
Yeah, kind of like your area of

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competence, if you will, like
the area of competence widens

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because of these norms, but then
these days that are outliers to

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the norm and then suddenly you
have more surface area where you

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feel competent.
Exactly.

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I like it.
Cool.

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I personally really struggle
with being out of routine but I

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find labeling really helps.
We, we haven't labeled it as a

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treat that kind of as explicitly
as you have.

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So I think I will steal that.
Adventure Day is something that

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we do do, which is on Saturday's
Maverick Skips nap and he's the

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only one that's still napping.
And so we we do label it as the

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adventure day.
And he knows that he's not going

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to have a nap, but typically
it's because we're doing

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something fun, like going to the
Kennedy Space Center.

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Right.
And we really try to keep that

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to just one day a week for
everyone's sanity.

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And it is.
It's harder in the afternoon,

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4:00 in the afternoon on the day
that he skips nap isn't really a

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fun time for anyone.
But hopefully we've had enough

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fun.
And oh, by the way, I've learned

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speaking about sugar, they get
at nap time at noon when

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everybody usually goes down for
a nap, they get a large piece of

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chocolate on nap day because I
find that that sugar, it's dark,

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dark chocolate, it's relatively
blood sugar stabilized sugar,

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but still like helps them, the
sugar in the caffeine like help

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them get through that nap
period.

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So it's kind of that
combination, if you will, of

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like Skipnap plus chocolate that
makes everybody like super

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motivated to for the adventure.
I'm going to steal that one

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back.
I like it.

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00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:51,920
See, this is what I mean,
though.

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00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,120
This is the magic of Team it,
right?

228
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,000
Which is like we need to talk
about these things because

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everybody has these great hacks.
You know that we're all kind of

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00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,480
keeping to ourselves, not
intentionally, but just because

231
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,280
it's not that.
It's not that talked about.

232
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Yeah.
And I, I feel badly we probably

233
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,240
should have introduced your
family composition to frame it

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00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,360
for everybody.
Can you share a little bit about

235
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,880
that?
Yeah, sure.

236
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,760
We have a 2 1/2 year old
daughter and an 11 month old son

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and a 14 year old dog.
I, I mentioned the dog because

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actually as it relates to
establishing norms and as it

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00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,920
relates to sort of understanding
the need of other members of the

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00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,960
household, I give a huge amount
of credit to our dog as I think

241
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:42,240
our dog has taken a lot of the
brunt of explicit teaching off

242
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,840
of us.
You're going to, you're going to

243
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,400
want me to go into that, say
more, say more.

244
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,640
So the dog needs to be fed.
The dog eats before we eat.

245
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,040
That's just always been the case
for me.

246
00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,680
I always feed the dog before I
eat dinner and that's what we do

247
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,080
here.
The dog needs to go out for a

248
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,920
walk.
Well, that's a great, the dog is

249
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,200
going to the bathroom.
Let's use that as an opportunity

250
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,680
to talk about bathroom needs and
our daughter's not potty trained

251
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,400
yet, but we are in the middle of
that conversation and it's just

252
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,160
a great the dog.
I keep on saying the dog, his

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00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,440
name is Jetson.
Jetson has been a fantastic, I

254
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,200
would say third parent in that
way because he you can't really

255
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,520
compromise on caring for your
dog and the kids recognize that.

256
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,760
And the kids also recognize that
there is somebody or another

257
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,120
being outside of themselves and
even outside of their parents

258
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,640
that needs care and attention.
And is part that becomes normal.

259
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,600
Becomes normal to to give your
attention and to provide care to

260
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,360
others.
Yeah, I I say you can only get a

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00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,840
dog at 2 points in a family's
life before kids or when your

262
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,360
kids are like at least 8 or 9
because I can't do it anywhere

263
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,720
in between.
So totally that's that feels

264
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,960
right there.
Have does that mean that you and

265
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,680
Tara have been together for for
Jetsons old life or?

266
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,400
Jetson and I have been together.
Oh wow OK.

267
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:17,040
Jetson pre dates everyone in the
household and and generally

268
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,280
we're single tapes.
I was a single.

269
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,960
Generally he keeps that to
himself, but every once in a

270
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,560
while he likes to make it known
to Tara.

271
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:31,400
Listen, I'm going to vie for #2.
That's great.

272
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,240
That's great.
Winston is our first born.

273
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,840
We got him six weeks before I
got pregnant with Hunter Greg.

274
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,360
Something like that.
Wow.

275
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,520
Yeah.
So he was our he was our baby

276
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,840
training, if you will.
And he's the only one just to

277
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,560
hit on a point you you quickly
made.

278
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,240
He's the only one that's been
potty trained like intentionally

279
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,440
out of no, I'm serious out of
this whole family.

280
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,080
So when you bring up the term
potty train, my like, you know,

281
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,840
dad of three kids that are now
all potty trained, quote UN

282
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,840
quote comes to mind because none
of them we didn't do any formal

283
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,640
potty training for them.
Really.

284
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:04,320
No.
Nothing.

285
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,760
Or teach them to swim.
Or teach them to swim.

286
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,440
Well, and they're all excellent
swimmers.

287
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,000
That's incredible because we are
right now in the middle of

288
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,720
thinking about potty training
and we just finished swim

289
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,040
lessons.
So I mean, I'd love to

290
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,440
understand from you guys.
Those are two pretty big things

291
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,240
for a lot of families for.
I want to make sure my kids are

292
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,320
safe in the water.
Absolutely.

293
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,520
Maverick is not, let's let's be
clear.

294
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,640
We've, we've two kids have not.
Maverick has not learned how to

295
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,160
swim yet.
He's comfortable in the water,

296
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,280
but he has not learned how to
swim yet.

297
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:34,320
But all three of them are potty
trained.

298
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,920
Maverick recently potty trained
himself like over the past

299
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,840
couple of months.
And we say that because we

300
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,480
never, yeah, we never did.
Like we have friends that did

301
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320
the kind of like underwear off
weekend kind of thing.

302
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,840
I don't know, it's like a pretty
common 1.

303
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,680
I don't even know.
It just it goes back to our

304
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,080
overall kind of how people learn
philosophy and kind of sense of

305
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,680
responsibility, respect for the
individual, if you will.

306
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,240
And just this idea that I don't
want to, I don't want to say

307
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,240
that like to potty trained is
not to be respectful because I

308
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,119
think you can certainly do it in
a respectful way.

309
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,839
But we, we're not ones to use
like rewards for anything

310
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,440
really.
So it felt a little bit not

311
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,280
aligned with our values to do
anything other than just wait

312
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,000
until they were ready.
And I would say the biggest

313
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,720
reward was, are, Are you ready
for underwear?

314
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,640
Tell me when you're ready for
underwear and I'll buy you

315
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,040
whatever kind of underwear you
want.

316
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,440
That's that's been the extent of
our potty training.

317
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,319
And then there came a time with
each child where they said I'm

318
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,480
ready.
They came to you.

319
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,600
Yes, they came to us.
And so Hunter did it.

320
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,080
By the time she was 3, Jade was
closer to 3 1/2.

321
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,320
Maverick was 3 1/2 and so that
worked for us because our

322
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,760
schools, the schools that we
have, you can go, you don't ever

323
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,400
have to be potty trained for
your, for the school.

324
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,120
You can be 6 years old and not
potty trained, it's fine.

325
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,000
So there was no pressure.
There was no external pressure

326
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,520
really.
And then now Maverick has been

327
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,800
potty trained for a couple
months now.

328
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,040
And it's just like making sure
every couple hours that I do ask

329
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,720
him like, you know, you have to
go to the bathroom before we

330
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,360
leave the house for school or
you have to go to the bathroom

331
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,440
before and after nap.
Like those are non negotiables

332
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,480
or before bed.
But otherwise he just goes

333
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,800
whenever.
You know, we've been, we've been

334
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,800
under the impression until very
recently that we are going to do

335
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,760
the, you know, the diaper off
weekend for the but it would be

336
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,160
the, if we did that, it would be
the first time we're doing

337
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,760
anything like it in that way
that you describe.

338
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,080
And hearing you say this makes
me want to totally reconsider.

339
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,480
It's one of those things that
we're not close enough yet to

340
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,480
her readiness that it was it was
something we were planning, but

341
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,240
it is something that's been
floating out there.

342
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,640
Everything else that we do with
her, and I say her because he's

343
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:46,360
only 11 months old, is has been
she has told us when she's

344
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:47,800
ready.
Yeah, she has.

345
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,120
Or at least said I would like to
do that if she didn't have the

346
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,080
language for I'm ready for.
Right, right.

347
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,960
And I mean, you can certainly
ask her, right?

348
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,920
Like I think that with Hunter,
we got like a little potty and

349
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,920
we put it next to mine and she
would come to the bathroom with

350
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,360
me, right?
And just like play with it a

351
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:05,360
little bit and explore the idea
of it, but no pressure, no

352
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,880
pressure, right?
Most, I think Maverick started

353
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,520
pooping in the potty first for a
long time and then because he

354
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,400
didn't like, you know, poop and
then now he's peeing and just

355
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,320
decided that he wanted to start
peeing in the potty.

356
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,680
It's I'm a big believer in that
one because like you said, like

357
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,040
there's there's no other time in
our life that we just kind of

358
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,120
say, OK, today's the weekend
that I have time, so I'm going

359
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,480
to take your underwear off.
Like that feels violating to to

360
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,520
me, no judgement to anybody, but
for me personally it felt

361
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,280
violating.
Yeah, that's why, that's why I

362
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,480
brought it up, because I feel
like it's one of those kind of

363
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,320
analogies that that opens up a
more deeper philosophical

364
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,720
conversation.
So I want to bring this back to

365
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,240
the concept of normal because
this is a good way, this is a

366
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,040
good illustration of, of what I
mean and what I don't mean when

367
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,960
I say we, we really think of
ourselves as the sort of as, as

368
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,760
the setters of what is normal.
Normal in our house is, like I

369
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,160
said, it's a feeling.
And so the feeling that you're

370
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,400
describing preserving by
allowing them to indicate when

371
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,320
they're ready.
Is much more important to us,

372
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:08,480
for example, then it is to say,
oh, it's normal that when you're

373
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,800
2 1/2 you go you, you're not
wearing a diaper for us, Well,

374
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,600
that's not a feeling that that
kind of external sort of look at

375
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,960
what's going on over there
motivation for us.

376
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,880
I think first of all, it doesn't
feel good in the moment, which

377
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,440
is important, but not always the
most important.

378
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,920
But I think what's more
important is to give, to give

379
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,480
our kids a sense that we care
more about their agency than we

380
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,680
do about some external view of
what they should that capital S

381
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,760
should be doing.
Understood.

382
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,160
Noah, you keep talking about
norms and normalization, which I

383
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,040
think is an incredible topic.
Where do you think that this

384
00:20:51,080 --> 00:21:01,440
need for norms comes from?
That's a great question for for

385
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,320
me and for us, 'cause it's
something that we've actually

386
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,880
talked about a lot, even in
advance of having kids.

387
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,160
We talked about, you know, you
talk about like what life do you

388
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,680
want to build together as, as a
couple, as a partnership?

389
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,160
And we firmly believe that our
family culture and our family

390
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,120
norms emanate from our
relationship and the way we

391
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,240
treat each other and the way we
prioritize our relationship.

392
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:34,280
And you know, so I think in one
sense, the fact that focusing

393
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:40,080
there brought us very close
together as an as a unit, it

394
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,040
felt like a natural, you know,
continuation from that

395
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,280
conversation.
But you know, taking a deeper

396
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:53,920
cut at the question, I would say
I grew up in a single parent

397
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,720
household where I give my mom so
much credit.

398
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,400
She held the line for me in a
way that I didn't recognize

399
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,040
until much later.
I felt like I had a very normal

400
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,320
childhood.
And whenever I heard in school

401
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,880
or, or you know, otherwise, all
of the all of the language

402
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,440
around, well, you know, if your
parents get divorced, it's not

403
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,640
your fault and all this stuff.
I kind of felt like, I felt like

404
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,880
for whatever reason, it didn't
apply to me because I kind of

405
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,360
felt like I'm not at a
disadvantage here.

406
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,160
I'm there's no, there's nothing
abnormal about my life.

407
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:37,680
And I think over time,
recognizing that, you know, I

408
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,640
didn't get, I didn't get special
treatment one way or the other

409
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,960
in our household.
I would say we, me and my

410
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,200
brother didn't get special
treatment one way or the other.

411
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,960
I came to appreciate so much
that that sense of normal that I

412
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,160
could learn to, I could expect,
I could have real expectations

413
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,720
of what days could look like,
what I would, what I could

414
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,280
expect from my mom, what I could
expect from my responsibilities

415
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,480
around the house.
That it, I think it allowed me

416
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,360
to participate in the world in a
different way than had I not had

417
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,800
that sense of norm.
One of the ways that we talked

418
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,840
about it in our house today is
there's out there and there's in

419
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,240
here.
And so the norms allow you to

420
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,880
have an in here, right?
Whatever happens out there, you

421
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720
know, it could, it could be
great, it could be terrible, it

422
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,520
could feel good, it could feel
bad.

423
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:42,160
But then you come in the door
and you're in here now, right?

424
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:47,440
And that distinction is, I
think, preserved by the concept

425
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,080
of norm.
That's beautifully.

426
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,240
Said thank you.
We talk about our family as a

427
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,960
base camp and that life is about
climbing our own mountains, but

428
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,640
that we want to maintain a base
camp where everyone feels safe,

429
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,560
sufficiently nurtured and
nourished and prepared, right.

430
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,400
Like given their their tools and
their supplies and their

431
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,640
frameworks to climb their own
mountains.

432
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,880
I love that I'm going to
introduce that language.

433
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,280
Cool.
Yeah.

434
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,760
And teamed is a base camp too,
right?

435
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,360
This is where this is where we
can all share.

436
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,360
And collectively, when we were
first starting out, like the

437
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,720
thing that I wrote on the vision
board is like a a recipe

438
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,080
collection, if you will, where
you know how you used to.

439
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,120
Like, I don't know, if you're in
your elementary school, you

440
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:38,320
would have like, I would send in
my grandma's meatball recipes

441
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,440
and Tina would send in her mom's
Donna's carrot cake recipe, and

442
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,560
then you'd get a book printed,
right?

443
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,360
We did, if we called it Heritage
Day.

444
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,320
There you go.
I want to create Heritage Day

445
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,160
for family culture.
Right.

446
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,840
I love that.
I think it's, I think it's, I

447
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,560
think it's really important to
do.

448
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,720
You know, I think you guys talk
about this in one of your first

449
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,440
episodes, but it just resonated
with me so much that your

450
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,920
priorities are what you do, not
what you say.

451
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,880
And so when it feels like the
ways to connect with other

452
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,320
people are not always about what
is your priority, there's a

453
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,760
disconnect that it seems like
you guys are you're going after

454
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,880
with this, with this community.
Yeah, what shows up for me in

455
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,600
this conversation about base
camp about out there versus in

456
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,840
here is in here to parents can
feel lonely especially pre team

457
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,920
it.
I mean that's a lot of what

458
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,120
we're doing here.
We're not just creating Heritage

459
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:42,120
Day.
We're looking for the

460
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,120
participants, right?
But are there other folks,

461
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,040
family members, anybody out
there that you've been able to

462
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,520
lean on or that you've been able
to have conversations like this

463
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,520
one outside of Tara and your
kids?

464
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,400
You know, I think if I had one
superpower, I think it's my

465
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,560
ability to take learnings from
places that don't feel very

466
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:11,080
fertile for learning.
And so I, I have lots of

467
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,720
conversations with people that
may or may not be about

468
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,520
parenting, but then I may be in
a, a family culture or a

469
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,160
parenting mindset when I'm
having those conversations.

470
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,280
And so I'm selectively calling
what I'm absorbing about, about,

471
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,680
you know, what's being said to
me to, to just take in the

472
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,840
learnings can be positive, can
be negative about, about family

473
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,640
culture.
You know, I think this is

474
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,520
probably true for the two of you
as well.

475
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,160
But professionally, I have been
lucky to be the young guy in the

476
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,320
room quite a for quite a while
now.

477
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,000
And the one thing that has stuck
with me in all of those

478
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,720
experiences across different
jobs and different bosses and

479
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,000
managers and just being the
young person in the room, is a

480
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,720
lot of people are very open
about what they wish they had

481
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:13,040
done.
And at the same time, a lot of

482
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,480
people inadvertently will guide
you in the same direction they

483
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:18,840
went.
It's.

484
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,480
A great notice.
And so when I use the word

485
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,560
called before, what I mean is
you kind of have to take the

486
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,240
wisdom and leave the.
Direction.

487
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,680
OK, so.
I love that, Noah.

488
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,960
Thank you.
That's great.

489
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,400
I think you, I think you 2 have
a lot in common from us.

490
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,880
Me yeah, yeah.
From from your arc is in your

491
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,160
early 20s, Danielle and your arc
and your.

492
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Arc yeah being.
The youngest in the room, the

493
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,600
youngest in the room had a high
growth organization with, but

494
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,760
that's, that's really a great
observation.

495
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,120
Now to take us back to why this
is showing up in the zeitgeist,

496
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,760
it's I think you're a trend
spotter and, and you're, you're

497
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,960
very good with with your words.
So what do you think is

498
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,640
important about this moment with
our, let's call it with the

499
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,440
millennial generation and Gen.
Z as we're having families where

500
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,120
it's not just having these
conversations in private, It's

501
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:17,280
about bringing them into the
forefront and making them, I

502
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,480
would say part of part of the,
the human experience, the shared

503
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,240
human experience versus just
like something that I mean,

504
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,240
we've all, we've all been having
families for, for forever.

505
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,480
And there there's not a podcast
insight, there's not ATV show

506
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,560
insight about about how to do
things proactively.

507
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,640
Everything is about reaction.
It's about what happens when,

508
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,320
what happens when you're, oh,
your kids throwing a fit, you

509
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,640
know, in Walmart, Like how do
you stop them?

510
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,520
And how do you correct that
behavior?

511
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,640
As opposed to like how how do
you make sure that before you

512
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,160
walk through those doors, they
know what's showing up into a

513
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,920
store means as a family and what
being out there in the world

514
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,040
together means?
Like why is that only showing up

515
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,040
now?
It's such a great question, and

516
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,680
I think my answer will maybe
reflect my little slice of the

517
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:11,840
world here.
But I think that I think that a

518
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:19,040
lot of millennial parents are
faced with a bit of a, a

519
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,680
dichotomy where, you know, you
may not have had the best

520
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,560
upbringing, but there are there.
It was a great time to grow up.

521
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,720
It was kind of like, you know,
there were ketchup was purple

522
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,680
and you know, like everything
was kind of wacky and and

523
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,400
focused on kids and Nickelodeon
and it was very you can be what

524
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,760
you want to be almost like a
playground.

525
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,640
The whole world felt like a
playground as a kid.

526
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:56,880
And I think there are a lot of
things that a lot of

527
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,800
externalities that resulted of
that world that we are now left

528
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,520
holding the bag, right.
What's going on with the

529
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,600
environment, what's going on
with inequality in our country

530
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,120
and around the world?
What's going on with, you know,

531
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,960
injustice, what's going on with
a lot of different things.

532
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,920
And we're sort of faced with
this.

533
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,320
I'm grateful for and, and I had
I had a lot of opportunities

534
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,240
growing up.
We're faced with wanting to

535
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,440
replicate so much of a good that
we had and talk about the world

536
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200
as a place of opportunity and
abundance and all of those

537
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,560
words.
But on the other side,

538
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,280
recognizing that if we did the
same things that our parents did

539
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000
or if the world does does
continues to do the same things,

540
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,560
some of that of the
responsibility of these

541
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,320
externalities now falls on us.
And so some of it is about, I

542
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,880
think how we feel and the kinds
of, you know, it to a certain

543
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,880
degree, some selfish motivations
around what kind of family you

544
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,880
want to surround yourself with.
But some of it, certainly the

545
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,760
way we think about it is we want
to take the good from the

546
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000
culture of opportunity and
abundance, but we can't continue

547
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,960
to do it unabated.
And we have to create

548
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,520
individuals and and foster in
individuals the ability to see

549
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,480
more and do more, but not just
for themselves.

550
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,840
Wow.
That make that aligns.

551
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,840
Totally, totally aligns.
Totally.

552
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,440
It kind of reminds me of the
mission of our children's

553
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,640
elementary school is to create
liberated learners who will

554
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,840
create a more just and healthier
planet.

555
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:53,760
And a lot of what really how it
had us gravitate there is

556
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,120
because we know that they will
learn the domain knowledge that

557
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,280
they need and the subject matter
expertise.

558
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,560
But this idea of being stewards
first in their community, but

559
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:10,080
then globally, and that they can
take action on big problems as

560
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,520
as little people and as they
grow is really what motivates us

561
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,240
to continue to lean into that
community, right?

562
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,000
So we're with you.
Absolutely.

563
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,560
Cool.
I think that's a wrap, guys.

564
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,920
This is great.
No, thank you so, so very much.

565
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,160
Have to have you joining us.
Have to have you back I think.

566
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,840
Love to come back and I will do
my best to convince Tara to come

567
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,760
back too.
We would love to have her.

568
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,080
Absolutely.
That sounds great.

569
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,760
All right.
Thanks everybody for joining us

570
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,880
on another episode of Teammate
Teammates.

571
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:39,760
Until next time.