TMIT 21: Seeing & Being Seen

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Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.

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I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld.

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Together, we're exploring how
ambitious busy families can

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build culture at home.
Because, after all, family is

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the most important thing.
Welcome everybody to Episode 21,

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our 11th and final episode in
the Wholehearted Parenting

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Manifesto.
We are here.

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We've made it, Yeah.
Thanks for sticking with us.

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That's right.
I hope that you've learned

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something.
We certainly have learned a lot.

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A lot.
So more on that later. 11 a

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lots. 11 a lots.
Yeah.

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So this one today is on seeing
and being seen.

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Shall I read the line, please?
OK.

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I will not teach or love or show
you anything perfectly, but I

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will try to let you see me.
And I will always hold sacred

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the gift of seeing you.
Truly, deeply seeing you.

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Seeing you, it's.
Kind of what it's all about, no?

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See and be seen.
See and be seen in a whole

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different way than that used to
be, right?

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It used to be about going to the
club, making sure that we were

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wearing, like, for me, something
iridescent, usually CNB seen at

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Rose Bar.
You know, it's like CNB seen by

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my children.
That's right.

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Yeah.
So let's see, 11 episodes in and

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we began this journey because
this was my aha moment, my

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little light bulb when we were
starting to talk about setting

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the emotional wiring of the
home, right?

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So how is that landed for you?
Do you think that this has been

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a good trailhead?
I think it's been a great

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trailhead.
I don't think that I ever really

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read the Wholehearted Parenting
Manifesto as a parent, really

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thinking of myself as a parent.
I read it as what someone else

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who's a parent would want for
their child.

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But to go through this exercise
and think about all of these

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things for ourselves, for our
own kids, it's been a wonderful

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journey.
It just has.

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Yeah.
It's one of those things where I

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think you can read it and say,
oh, that's interesting, right,

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That that really said a lot.
But I'm really grateful that

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we've taken the time to talk
about each line and really

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pause.
It's, I've kind of relished in

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this, honestly.
It's so often, I think we

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consume so much content.
We read so much that sitting

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with something like, you know,
sitting with something like

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this, that Brene wrote so much
from the heart is really a

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luxury, if you will.
Yeah.

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We're starting something new
here.

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We're 21 now.
Episodes in, plus a few side

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quests.
Yeah, if you always side quest.

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Always have a side quest and at
the beginning of this journey, I

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think it was important for us to
have the Wholehearted Parenting

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Manifesto as a foundation, not
just for our family, but for our

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podcast.
This podcast is a baby and in in

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raising the baby, we're hanging
the the WPM next to the crib

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saying this is what I want for
you.

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Sure.
I think that this juxtaposition

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between the rituals and routines
like family meetings, family

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meals, which have been awesome
and we continue to do those.

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We haven't done an experiment
update in a while, but I would

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say that family meetings, family
meals and family movement have

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become weekly rituals in our
home, right?

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And we continue to try to
sprinkle in family stories.

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But suffice it to say that I do
believe that we have ritualized

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a lot of what we set out as
important in the 1st 8 episodes

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of this podcast, which I'm which
I'm happy for and also like, not

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that surprised because we are
massive action takers and very

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good at at routine.
But this is a little bit

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different.
This second arc around the

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language and the framework and
really emotionally, what is like

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laying claim to what is
emotionally important within our

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home, how we want to show up for
ourselves and for one another.

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You know those lights in the
hallway in Severance that like

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light up as you take the steps?
Yes, creepy.

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Creepy, but I feel like that's
the light that's been guiding us

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through.
This I see what you mean.

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Yeah, through this journey.
Yeah.

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Well, when anytime anybody asks
me about our podcast and where

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we're going, I'm like, I don't
think you understand how this is

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working.
I know that we're on the path, I

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feel that we are on the trail,
but I can only see like two or

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three steps ahead on a good day,
like on a clear day, that is as

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far ahead as we can go.
So there's something mystical

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about it, I think.
And I'm really grateful to have

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one of my sages, Brené Brown,
and maybe yours now too, guiding

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us this second arc.
It's been she's been a wonderful

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guide into where we are today.
I don't want to set up this

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podcast to only be looking at
the sages, but I'm so glad that

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we did this.
I'm really glad that we're here.

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Me too, and we're just getting
started.

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We are just getting started.
Yeah.

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So let's get to it.
Seeing and being seen.

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I think that throughout this
journey, we've talked about a

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lot of important things,
courage, compassion, boundaries,

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accountability and respect or
things that come to mind.

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And here at the very end, I feel
like she is saying it all, which

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is at the end of the day, in
order to have a family that is

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connected, joyful and where
everyone belongs.

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The simple truth is we just need
to show up and perfectly and see

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one another.
So how do we do that?

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By pausing, By staying present,
right?

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I don't know.
I don't.

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I wouldn't say that at this time
of my life.

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I don't think that I have too
much trouble seeing people.

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It's what comes next that I
struggle with a little bit.

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It's like, OK, I see you and now
what am I going to do with it,

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right?
And also, I think that being

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vulnerable and showing up and
perfectly and allowing ourselves

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to be seen is the other part of
this.

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So which do you want to talk
about first?

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So the two parts are the seeing
versus the showing up.

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Yeah.
I mean, the way she positions it

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is that I will show up
vulnerably and then perfectly

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and allow myself to be seen,
right?

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And then I will also truly,
deeply see you.

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Yeah, I think I want to start
with the truly, deeply seeing

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you, because that to me is
thinking about what seeing

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means.
There's an action or inaction

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that's almost required after you
know somebody.

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OK, say more.
Well, so seeing Maverick the

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other day for what he was
capable of on a bike ride and

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knowing how to get him home
without picking him up or

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picking up the bike or letting
him tap out, that was an amazing

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action that you took and I
didn't know how to how you were

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going to do that do.
You want to set the context a

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little bit.
Yeah, sure.

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So we're on a bike ride, family
bike ride, pretty hot.

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We did about a mile and a half.
Danielle and I were walk walking

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slash running alongside the
three kids.

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And we got to the halfway point
to turn around and there's a

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little hill coming back and
Maverick is just had, he's had

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it.
He's like, no.

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And we're we're really just at
the turn around point basically.

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Yeah, we had the whole way home
too.

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Meanwhile, so Hunter and Jade
both know how to pedal and are

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pretty fast on their bikes, and
Maverick has just really

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mastered the balance bike, so
this was his first big journey

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without pedals, but on a.
Real.

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Yeah.
And I'm sitting here looking at

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this kid being like, hell no.
Am I going to walk his bike home

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or carry him home?
And Danielle's thinking the same

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thing, but I'm like, I don't
have the tools to get him to

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ride his bike home.
What?

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What are we going to do here?
And I'm thinking back to like, I

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probably was that kid.
I probably was that 3 1/2 year

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old that wanted to give up.
And I believe that my parents

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let me this kid had it in him to
make it home and he did.

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And it is in the act of seeing
him that there was a choice to

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be made in that moment.
And the choice that you made was

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I'm going to figure out how to
unlock this kids will and not

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force him, not scold him, not
shame him, but really be there

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with him and get him home.
And I don't know what you did

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next, but all I know is I was
with the girls running ahead and

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I see him coming around the
corner, sweating his face off

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and just like looking so
determined.

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And he made it all the way home.
He did he like the last leg of

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the trip?
I mean, he was flying.

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It was amazing.
It was incredible.

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Kristen Faulkner, we channeled
you.

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He did for sure, for sure.
You know, I think it does go

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back to this bigger picture of
seeing Maverick.

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And it's something that I don't,
I feel like anybody else out

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there, like I feel like I can
really only focus on one child

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at a time.
And maybe a week and a half ago,

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I decided, OK, we have to work
on some, some skills with

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Maverick, some skill building
with Maverick because as our

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third child, he, he kind of
takes the easy route and we've

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allowed him to take the easy
route in certain skill

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buildings.
Let me let me try to get more

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specific here.
Swimming, he is 3 1/2 three and

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3/4 as of today actually.
So he swims with swimmies on or

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floaties on because he wants to
jump in the pool and swim around

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like his sisters, right?
This is later than the other two

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learned to swim, but it's
because he wants to keep up with

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his sisters.
Same thing with the bike.

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This was his first balance bike
adventure because he'd been on

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his scooter for the past six
months because that was faster

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than learning to balance bike,
and it was a way that he could

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somewhat keep up with his
sisters.

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What he realized is that his
legs start to hurt on the

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scooter after a little while,
and so that's not going to get

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him to go the distance, right?
So what happened on the bike the

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other day was one I absolutely
did not want to be caring at

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home.
And I knew it was going to take

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way longer and nap time was it
coming.

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But I saw him in a way that he
hasn't yet seen himself.

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And that is a capable,
determined, strong little boy

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who absolutely had the physical
stamina to get home.

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And so, yeah, I really tried to
tap into that.

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I used our Neufeld family cheer.
I said the word, you know, I

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said you, you are a Neufeld, you
do hard things.

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We are determined you are going
to feel so good when you get

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home and I promise to give you
lots of ice water with

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electrolytes.
I also did something a little

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bit coloring outside the lines.
I took off his helmet because he

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was so hot and he wasn't really
going that fast.

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So I, I reasoned to myself that
that was an OK thing and I think

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that that really moved the
needle for him.

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This idea of seeing you is, is
relatively complex, I think,

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because sometimes it's about
someone really trying to show

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you who they are overtly.
And other times, especially with

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our children, I think it's we
need to be that mirror

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reflecting to them what we see
in them that they don't yet see

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in themselves.
And this was a case of the

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latter.
Yes, well done.

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I mean, thank you like from from
all of us.

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Thank you.
Well, it was also one of those

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times where my I just had the
capacity.

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There are times when I have to
tap out and you have to fill in

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right.
This I just happened to have

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capacity yesterday.
Yeah, well, you had you had a

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set of tools that really worked
for him.

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I think that encouraging him to
see himself and whatever that

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action is that I alluded to just
a a few minutes ago where I'm

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saying seeing requires an action
or inaction, like knowing what

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that action is in that moment.
We're in action to help the

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child to see themselves.
That's really what the process

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looks like.
I agree with you.

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I'm also thinking about how that
didn't happen in isolation.

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Right of.
Course not.

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We have a strong foundation of
connection and he knows that I'm

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on his team.
Even though he doesn't feel like

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putting in the plate, the plates
into the dishwasher or brushing

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his teeth or going to the
bathroom before he leaves for

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00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,080
school, he knows that I am the
person that always builds the

226
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,520
frame of his puzzles, that will
always play stuffies with him,

227
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,400
that will ride train tracks and
build magnetile towers when he

228
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,960
wants to, right?
And so when I tell him that this

229
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,920
is something that he is capable
of, I do think that he believes

230
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,280
me, even though he's really
scared.

231
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,760
Like that's what we've learned
about him is that he puts on a

232
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,640
really tough exterior and puts
up a really tough fight.

233
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,800
But underneath, because we
finally, he finally did say it

234
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,440
and breakdown, he said.
I'm scared, right?

235
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:11,960
Yeah.
I mean, I think that there's

236
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,480
probably a comparable story for
each of our children just over

237
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,440
the last week where you've been
able to see them and turn

238
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,960
something that was really tough
into a situation of growth.

239
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,720
Thanks.
I think you give me way too much

240
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,800
credit always, not just on this
podcast.

241
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,720
He always does.
I want to be really honest here

242
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:36,840
though, and say that there's one
person with whom I really

243
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,080
struggle with fanning her flame,
and that's Hunter.

244
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,840
I don't know if it's because
she's the first born, it's

245
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,360
because she's our daughter,
because she and I have a lot of

246
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,760
similar tendencies.
But I do think that I see her

247
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,880
and a lot of times I don't like
what I see.

248
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,920
And back to our team teammates
episode with Jen Zelman.

249
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:07,000
It's a lot of the time I think
that I am trying to control or

250
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,920
put out the things that were put
out in me.

251
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,000
And so while I have a reminder
on my phone every Saturday that

252
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,360
says what do I want most for our
children?

253
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,560
I want to see them, believe in
them and love them.

254
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,160
I think I really need to work on
the believe in them when it

255
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,840
comes to Hunter more than
anything because oftentimes

256
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,920
she's just too much for me.
And that like hurts.

257
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,480
It hurts literally coming out of
my mouth because that's my thing

258
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,520
too, where I feel like I am just
too much and was told that I was

259
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,840
too much.
And now here I am repeating that

260
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:54,440
about my first born daughter.
Yikes.

261
00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:01,080
Yikes, Renee, you got me again.
So when it comes to experiments,

262
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:06,560
what I can commit to, and it's
high time that I do, is not just

263
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:14,520
seeing Hunter, but allowing her
to be seen even when it makes me

264
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:21,320
uncomfortable.
I'm wondering if Hunter is doing

265
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,120
something that I noticed with
each of our kids for me, where

266
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,120
they're showing one side of them
that they think that you don't

267
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,000
see enough of or think that
they're not able to show off

268
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,280
enough in the rest of the world.
So for Hunter, non-stop

269
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,840
conversation talking, watch
this.

270
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,680
You know, she's the little one
in the, in her school, She's the

271
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,560
little one in her camp.
She's the she's, she's 7, which

272
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,600
is a big seven in this house,
but it's a little #7 everywhere

273
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,920
else for me.
I see Jade, for example,

274
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,080
whenever music comes on, she
gives me like a huge stare to

275
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,200
make sure I'm looking and then
does the silliest dance

276
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,360
possible.
And it's because she wants me to

277
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,760
know.
Dad, I see the way you look at

278
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,000
me when I dance like this.
And what I want her to know is,

279
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,680
Jada, I see you all the time.
You might not just you might not

280
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,360
see it, but I see you all the
time.

281
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,800
And I want for you to know that
you don't have to dance like a

282
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,240
silly, crazy maniac for me to
see you and love you.

283
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,080
But sometimes our kids can teach
us things about ourselves that

284
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,400
we don't know or that isn't so
obvious.

285
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,080
So Maverick has this really
unfortunate evening bathroom

286
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,080
habit where he has to use the
bathroom before he goes to bed,

287
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,400
and I'm on Maverick.
Pooping.

288
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,200
He.
Says I'm on maverick evening

289
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,120
poop duty and I really don't
like it.

290
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:56,520
And a couple weeks ago though he
said to me Dad talk to me and I

291
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,360
realized that the reason he
doesn't like going to the

292
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,600
bathroom is because I'm trying
to get him to do his business

293
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,280
and go to sleep.
Whereas what he really wants is

294
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,040
a continuation of bedtime and
for someone to stand there and

295
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,640
talk to him.
The problem is he's easily

296
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,760
distracted because he's 3 1/2
and he doesn't use the potty

297
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,640
unless he's there by himself.
So what I've tried to do instead

298
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,800
is not talk to him on the potty,
but not bring my phone into the

299
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,720
kids room during bedtime so that
I can be present for everything

300
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,160
up to the pooping and that way
at least we have that time of

301
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,680
connection.
But that is something that I

302
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,480
didn't realize about myself is
that I was still busy in the day

303
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,360
and when he said dad talk to me
when he was pooping, I listened

304
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,960
for Hunter.
I think I was Hunter.

305
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,400
I was really bold and loud at
home and I was the runt.

306
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,840
I was the little kid in school.
I was a grade ahead, or, you

307
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,600
know, almost a grade ahead
because of my birthday, just

308
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,720
like she is.
And I realized it last night.

309
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,600
I was looking through some
family photos on the computer

310
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,720
because it was the 11th
anniversary of my dad's passing.

311
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,080
And I realized all the photos
that I was looking at were of me

312
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,240
and my dad or me and my mom or
me and my mom and dad or me and

313
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,000
my grandparents or me and my
brother and my parents.

314
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,200
But for my entire life, I've
skipped over the photos of my

315
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,320
brother with my father or my
brother with my mother.

316
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,160
I haven't even really, I never
even really reflected on that

317
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,640
separate relationship that they
all had that each of them had

318
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,760
together.
And I think that's like first

319
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,800
born symptoms, you know, that's
first born syndrome, I should

320
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:40,160
say, where like everyone else is
kind of in the supporting cast

321
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,560
and I had the lead role in my
mind.

322
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,800
And because you are able to see
Hunter for that and you're able

323
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,200
to shut her down at times and be
like, no, you are 1/5 of this

324
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,120
family.
I think that you're going to

325
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:58,320
find that that repetition will
really pay off.

326
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,320
So I don't think that you need
to scold yourself or be ashamed

327
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,160
of the way that you're showing
up in that relationship because

328
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,520
I don't think it's the same as
you being told that you're too

329
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,760
much.
I think you being told that you

330
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,800
were too much were probably by
people that weren't ready to

331
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,480
include you in their lives.
Versus with Hunter, you're

332
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,960
telling her that she's 1/5 of
this family and that is an

333
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,160
accurate representation.
I say 1/6.

334
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,640
Because 1/6 because of Winston.
Yeah.

335
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,720
And that is an accurate
representation, so don't beat

336
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,520
yourself up for that.
I really would not equate you

337
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,160
being told that you are too much
with you telling Hunter that she

338
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,480
is too much, because while they
are the same words, their

339
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,040
meaning could not be more
different.

340
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,560
Sure, I hear you.
I think that there are times

341
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,120
when she is taking up more than
her fair share of space in the

342
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,360
home.
Absolutely.

343
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,640
And that I do, but I could do
better in kind of saying things

344
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,080
like Hunter, I love how
expressive you are.

345
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,800
I love how much energy that you
have.

346
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,640
You have in the morning.
And we need to make space for

347
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,360
everyone here, right?
And that kind of more balanced

348
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,960
approach.
There are also times where she

349
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,520
is, you know, really does come
come out around being theatrical

350
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,720
or artistic.
Those were not things that were

351
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,160
cultivated.
In my home, not only that they

352
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,600
weren't really allowed and so I
really have trouble allowing

353
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,160
them even when it is just that
1/6 of the family.

354
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,880
Do you know what I mean?
So they're two separate, 2

355
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,840
separate things.
No, I understand, I think that I

356
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,480
want to and I, I mentioned this
in our joy episode that I, and I

357
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,040
just want to continue the thread
of just allowing space of

358
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,560
someone when they are in their
joy, but also being really

359
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,680
thoughtful and intentional about
the way that I give feedback or

360
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,360
give notes as she's come to
learn in her theatre camp on how

361
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,320
we show up with one another.
Because at the end of the day,

362
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:58,800
while I want to fan the flame of
everyone in this home, I also

363
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,760
want to help them learn how to
thrive in community.

364
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,200
And if you are not paying any
attention, you're not reading

365
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,800
the room because you are off
singing and dancing and you

366
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,160
can't tell that other people are
getting irritated and can't get

367
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,120
a word in.
That's not good either.

368
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,280
No, it's not.
I don't know if that's the case,

369
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:27,360
though, and I suspect that
Hunter is bringing the energy to

370
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,760
the house that she doesn't feel
comfortable showing up with

371
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,960
elsewhere.
Well whatever it is, it has

372
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,080
knock on effects for the rest of
this.

373
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,280
Family, of course it does.
I don't I don't disagree.

374
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,400
My, my hunch is that we need to
give her more responsibility on

375
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,280
the parent team, if you will, in
order for her to cease that

376
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,480
behavior.
Because right now she's showing

377
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,600
up as the loudest Newfeld kid.
And I think she needs to show up

378
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,560
as the quietest and most
observant, like Newfeld parent

379
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,920
assistant.
Because you know who's really

380
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,040
freaking loud and won't stop
talking to Maverick.

381
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,400
But he we don't have any tools
for that because he's 3 1/2.

382
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,480
Sure, OK.
I feel like we're digressing off

383
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,960
of seeing and being seen and I
also don't want to make this all

384
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,120
about the kids so more to be
revealed.

385
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:13,720
More to be revealed.
But the point is we are seeing.

386
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,680
Them we're seeing them for.
Sure.

387
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,920
My gosh, I feel like every week
we have a different late night

388
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,920
conversation about a different
child, right?

389
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,560
Which which is all we can really
hope for.

390
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,240
I think that's that's all our
kids can really hope for too.

391
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,760
And we're giving them the tools
as a part of this family that

392
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,440
when we do see them struggling,
they will be able to overcome

393
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,120
the obstacle.
They will be able to finish that

394
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,680
math page.
They will be able to read that

395
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,120
word.
They will be able to get that

396
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,680
bike home.
They will be able to take their

397
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,120
swimmies off in the pool and
start swimming for the first

398
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,720
time like Maverick just did.
I think this is what seeing is

399
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,720
all about, is seeing when
they're ready.

400
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,560
And it's not just saying, hey, I
think you're ready.

401
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,320
It's saying I know you're ready
because I've watched you and I

402
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,160
see you and I know that you do
hard things.

403
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,440
And I mean, the proof is in the
pudding.

404
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,680
These kids really do end up
impressing each, each and

405
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,360
everyone of us and especially
themselves with what they're

406
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:03,920
capable of.
Yeah.

407
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,040
There is also an element of this
that I want to express my

408
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,960
gratitude to you for always
allowing me to be seen.

409
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,160
Like I truly feel like I can
show up in our home and in our

410
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,520
marriage with my high highs and
my low lows.

411
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,600
And I'm extremely grateful for
you for for allowing space for

412
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,680
that.
Thanks for saying that.

413
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,880
Yeah, I mean, just this morning,
right?

414
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,360
Just this morning, I was really
having a down morning, which is

415
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:41,360
not like me, but it happens
sometimes.

416
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,520
And you didn't really know how
to support me, but you just

417
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,680
hugged me and said, I hear you.
I I see you, I see where you

418
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,480
are, and I'm here for you.
Yeah, I mean, thanks for doing

419
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,320
the same for me.
You're a great modeler of

420
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,800
seeing.
Craig, take a compliment.

421
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,120
Don't don't throw back at me,
OK?

422
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,560
No, truly.
Yeah.

423
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,920
You make it easy to be seen.
I I show up very loudly.

424
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,160
No, it's just you.
You.

425
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,960
You are very true with your
words, you're very true with

426
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,120
your needs.
And you don't mope around

427
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,960
looking for attention.
So it's pretty clear when you

428
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,240
need some space, when you need
some extra love, when you need

429
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,440
some problem solving, when you
need some empathy.

430
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,000
Like, you know, you're, you're
pretty clear with what you need.

431
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,960
Thanks.
Yeah.

432
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,000
You know, we used to say in our
home, between the two of us, we

433
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,360
would say, OK, do you want
empathy or do you want a

434
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:46,560
solution?
And I still really like that.

435
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,760
But I heard something the other
day that I think might even be

436
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,200
better.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

437
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,400
Three HS.
It was like an Instagram push to

438
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,480
me.
But he said, do you want to be

439
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:01,040
helped, heard or hugged?
I really like that because yeah,

440
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,880
sometimes you don't want empathy
or a solution.

441
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000
You just want to hug.
So do you want to be helped,

442
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,600
heard or hugged?
OK, I think that's a good one

443
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,960
for us.
I think it's a good one with the

444
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,200
kids too with.
The kids, yeah.

445
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:20,120
One of the ways that I feel like
I can be seen by this family is

446
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,400
through singing and through
play.

447
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,400
So singing and play are.
It's weird.

448
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,560
They're like, it's like dusting
off a game that I haven't played

449
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,040
in a while that I clearly have
fond memories of and know how to

450
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,080
enjoy, but it takes me a little
while to get revved up.

451
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,160
But I just noticed yesterday in
Family Meeting, Hunter did some

452
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:48,680
theatrical warmups and she did
it for like 2 minutes and I was

453
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,800
like OK let's move on.
And then she did it for another

454
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,600
5 minutes and I was like don't
stop.

455
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,520
Like why are we stopping?
This is a basic.

456
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,440
So once you pushed through, you
were there.

457
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,200
Cool.
I was ready to stop.

458
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,120
But I was like, oh, this is
great.

459
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,240
I was like, I heard you get to
do this.

460
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,640
So I just, I just know that
about myself.

461
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,840
I'm able to be seen and just be
a better.

462
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,240
I don't know how to say it.
There's there's something about

463
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:24,120
being seen and play and singing
that really helps me to relate

464
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:27,120
to our kids, but more so for
them to relate to me.

465
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,560
So that's why I don't mind
Hunter's dad.

466
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,720
Watch this, watch this, watch
this, watch this.

467
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,400
It's like the most.
But then something totally

468
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,400
underwhelming.
Happens every single time it's

469
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,360
but it's she's never been 7 1/2
before I know and twirling like

470
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,720
she's never seen her before.
Everything is so new for her.

471
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,520
Yes, so it's it's hard.
That's why I really liked her

472
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,640
coming to me and being like dad,
There's this dance that they

473
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,560
were all learning at camp that
all the counsellors were

474
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,480
learning.
She was like, and it went like a

475
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,480
5678 and I was like, wait,
they're teaching the chorus line

476
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,400
dance.
We've got to do that as a

477
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,040
family.
So just things like that.

478
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,320
I feel very, very seen in my in
like the best way of of like

479
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,480
childish.
Her childhood delight, if you

480
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,640
will.
It's very cool that Hunter found

481
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,440
theater on her own.
I would say it's not something

482
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,360
that you pushed, but it really
does feel full circle that now

483
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,120
she is kind of leading you back
to theater.

484
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,800
Yeah, it is.
Another thing that comes up for

485
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,080
me when I read this line is
about how there have been many

486
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,280
moments, some my darkest
moments, where our children see

487
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,120
me.
And it is profoundly healing.

488
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,480
So I can remember it was really
a couple of years ago that I had

489
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,720
lost my temper and screamed
loudly at someone.

490
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,640
And we were getting in the golf
cart on our way to the beach and

491
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,600
I was feeling ashamed.
And as I climbed in, in the back

492
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,240
next to Hunter, she said, it's
OK, mommy.

493
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,320
Everyone loses their temper
sometimes.

494
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,880
We know.
You just had to let it out.

495
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,920
And she held my hand, and that
was incredible.

496
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,680
She saw me, and she knew that
well.

497
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,960
She thought it was no big deal
to her.

498
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,840
It wasn't that deep.
And here I am having an

499
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,480
existential crisis over how I'm
the angry mom.

500
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,200
I'm the worst mom ever for
losing my temper.

501
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,080
And she's like, I have meltdowns
all the time, Mommy, you can,

502
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,160
too.
And that was so profoundly

503
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,640
healing to me.
Like it's OK, It's really OK.

504
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Takes one to know one.
What does that mean?

505
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,320
Just that she's picked that up
from somewhere.

506
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,240
Yeah, I guess I just didn't know
because how can I say this

507
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,680
appropriately?
I, like many people my age, are

508
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,040
trying to do something different
than the generations before me.

509
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,360
I think that will probably
happen with my kids too, but so

510
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,160
I don't really have a blueprint
for how this is supposed to go.

511
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,920
And I guess part of me thought
that I'm never supposed to

512
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,560
overreact.
I'm never supposed to scream and

513
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,640
yell because I'm supposed to be
the capable one, the evolved 1,

514
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,800
the one that is nurturing,
protecting and guiding.

515
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,640
And in that moment, I really
understood that it's OK to be.

516
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Human.
Yeah.

517
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,000
It's important to to be human,
to show that you're human, to

518
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,760
let that part of you be seen.
I had parents that tried to do

519
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,480
everything perfectly and not
show us their human side.

520
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,160
And I can only remember a
handful of occasions when either

521
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:06,280
of them lost their temper.
But I got my way so much more

522
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,160
than I should have.
And that was the that was the

523
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,680
flip side, right?
That was the, that was the trade

524
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,000
off that they made.
I would have much rather in

525
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,760
hindsight learned a lot of these
lessons that I learned later in

526
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,480
life from them earlier and had
them lose their temper for me to

527
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,760
to learn them.
So we're doing great.

528
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,920
So yeah, definitely better than
the previous generation.

529
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,480
So I I do think that this family
is seeing one another and I do

530
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,040
think that, yeah, everyone is
showing up vulnerably.

531
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,640
Yeah.
And so that feels like if we

532
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,560
take nothing else from this
wholehearted parenting

533
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,760
manifesto, but we keep doing
that, we will.

534
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,560
We will thrive.
We will.

535
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:56,160
And I think there's something
really reality TV esque about

536
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,920
the two of us because we're
living our whole lives in front

537
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,320
of these children, right?
We're not hiding any part of it.

538
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,320
We're working in front of them.
We're recording podcasts in

539
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,720
front of them, we're playing
with them.

540
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:15,960
We're setting up our own time
away from their time, like the

541
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,160
days are full and they're full
of different activities, many of

542
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,320
which do not include them, but
they bear witness to it.

543
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,240
That's all I got.
Cool.

544
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,960
OK, So what is the most
important thing about seeing and

545
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,520
being seen?
I think it's what Brene says.

546
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,680
It's about showing up
imperfectly and seeing each

547
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,720
other imperfectly, but working
hard to continue that process.

548
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,760
Yeah.
And I would love for our kids to

549
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,640
reflect on their childhood and
say, well, my mom and dad, they

550
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,240
loved me and they motivated me,
but they didn't try to change

551
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:04,000
me.
That is a really high bar.

552
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:10,400
Yeah, working on it.
Yeah, I think I would love for

553
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,760
our kids to say that.
I know they didn't do everything

554
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,320
right.
They did a lot of things right,

555
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,040
but they made quite a few
mistakes.

556
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,120
But I know they tried really
hard and that their hearts were

557
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:30,680
in the right place.
Well, thank you, Brené Brown,

558
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,280
for bringing us on this journey.
I hope that all of you enjoyed

559
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,800
it as well.
Got something out of it?

560
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,920
Please let us know if you have a
favorite episode or topic.

561
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,960
And so where do we go next?
Yeah, I have some ideas.

562
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,840
Yes, I have some ideas.
So back to my metaphor, if we

563
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,760
can.
So if we think about Arc one as

564
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,280
pouring the foundation, saying
family culture matters and

565
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,960
creating rituals and routines
that really make space for our

566
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,200
intentional family culture, And
then Arc 2 as the emotional

567
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,720
wiring of the house, the
language, the frameworks, the

568
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,760
invisible stuff that you can't
see but you can really feel.

569
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,000
I feel like we've made a pretty
nice house.

570
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,120
At least nice enough that it is
time to step outside.

571
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,400
And so where I'd like to go next
is around what happens when our

572
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,680
family individually steps out
into the world with the

573
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,760
foundation that we've laid
behind us.

574
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,360
Sound fun?
I love it outside the home there

575
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,440
are so many landmines.
And so many adventures.

576
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,000
So many adventures.
I think of the landmines first

577
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,240
be obviously because we can
control what happens in the

578
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,200
house more or less and outside
anything goes.

579
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,240
Yes, it goes back to that quote
that I love, that I told you my

580
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,680
friend sent to me, that I love
when things are predictable and

581
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,120
under my control, but it is time
to break free and see the

582
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,360
adventures the universe has
planned for us.

583
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,120
Well, I couldn't wait to get
outside the home when I was a

584
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,600
kid, and now that I'm an adult,
I love being inside the home.

585
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,480
So I think exploring what
outside the home looks like with

586
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,360
our family as a family unit and
how we show up in the world

587
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,520
together and how we prepare our
children to show up in the world

588
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,440
as members of this family
individually outside, that's

589
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,920
going to be some really cool
stuff to dig into.

590
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,280
Me too.
I'm excited in, I'm excited for

591
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,520
our kids and for the experiments
that we will run with them, but

592
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,239
also for the experiments that
you and I will run individually

593
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,760
and together.
Because we had a very full,

594
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,040
vibrant external life prior to
COVID.

595
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,080
And whether it was moving three
times or children or combination

596
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,480
of all of it, we have done some
remarkable things inside inside

597
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,480
this home.
But it is time that we start

598
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,920
stepping out.
That's right.

599
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,520
And so I'm excited to experiment
with you as well.

600
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,720
Say no more, I will be there.
Cool, and I hope you all will

601
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:10,800
too.
So thank you so much for joining

602
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:11,600
us.
Thank you guys.

603
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,880
And we'll see you next time.
See you next time.

604
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,920
On the most important thing,
love you goosy.

605
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,320
Love you goosy.
Hey guys, if you're still here,

606
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,040
you're definitely our kind of
person.

607
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,040
Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important

608
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,560
Thing.
If this episode resonated with

609
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,000
you, we'd love for you to follow
us wherever you get your

610
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,200
podcasts and share it with
someone else.

611
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,920
Building family culture on
purpose.