TMIT 17: Spirit

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All right, you ready?
Ready.

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OK.
Welcome to The Most Important

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Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.

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And I'm Greg Neufeld, and
together we're exploring how

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ambitious busy families build
culture at home.

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Because after all, family is the
most important thing.

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Hi everybody, welcome back to
The Most Important Thing,

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episode 17 on Spirit.
Spirit in the sky.

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That's right, somewhere,
everywhere.

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This is the 8th episode in our
wholehearted parenting journey

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and the line from the manifesto
is when uncertainty and scarcity

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visit, you will be able to draw
from the spirit that is a part

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of our everyday life.
It's beautiful.

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Yeah.
All these lines are beautiful.

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They are, I know, so spirit, so
spirit.

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Where would you like to begin?
Well, we're trying to teach our

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kids about our spirituality or
Yeah.

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So I mean, for me, the objective
is to bring it more into a part

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of our everyday life.
A, an analogy, a story, if you

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will.
To me, Spirit really showed up

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for me when we went to the
library this past weekend.

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And up on the shelf was this
beautiful neon colored, awesome

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looking 900 page book that the
kids gravitated towards right

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away.
And it was actually the book

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that I was 97% of the way
finished reading.

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I subsequently finished it that
night.

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You got to say what book it is.
It's.

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It's part of the Dungeon Crawler
Carl series.

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It's called the Butcher's
Masquerade.

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I guess it's #5 but because
you're like, Oh my gosh, this is

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the coolest book, Mommy, you
have to get it.

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And I was like, I have this
book.

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This is the book that I am
reading, and I read it on Kindle

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every night, so nobody really
sees it.

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And it's awesome and I love it
and it's my own personal little

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thing.
But here I am hiding from all of

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you this amazingly rich and
wonderful thing that until it

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was sitting on a shelf, I didn't
even think to talk to you about.

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And that's really how I feel
about my spiritual life as well.

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It's this beautiful, rich,
incredibly important, I mean,

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honestly, probably the most
important thing to me because if

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I don't have a spiritual
foundation that for me is close

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to my higher power, I can't show
up for my family.

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And yet I don't really talk
about it with anybody in our

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family.
And so I would like kind of in

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this conversation for us to come
up with some ideas of how to

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bring our spirituality, each of
our own into the everyday in a

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way.
Not so that we can projected

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onto our children, but to model
that we are each innately

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spiritual beings and to really
authorize each of our children

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to go on their own spiritual
journey.

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Yeah, I'm on board with that.
And I do think that the analogy

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is very strong here in that we
each have spiritual practices

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that the kids do not see.
So how do we bring those out and

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talk about them, but not just
talk about them, embody them.

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Really, really show.
Show up in the world with our

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kids and help them notice what
we're seeing from a spiritual

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connection perspective as those
events or serendipity unfolds.

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Right.
Yeah.

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I think it's important to note
that we are not a religious

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family.
So I grew up Catholic and you

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grew up Presbyterian, right?
But your father was Jewish.

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And we have not, though we do
kind of culturally celebrate

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Christmas.
We don't have a House of worship

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or a framework or language, if
you will, or community really,

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that someone like a, that a
family that is religious does

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share.
And so this is yet another

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opportunity for us to, well, to
paint a blank canvas, right, And

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to bring our intentionality to
kind of create our own.

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Yeah.
I think we do both believe.

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And I would say that
neuroscience is currently

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backing us up.
So I did some research prior to

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this episode and learned a bit
about the work of Doctor Lisa

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Miller, whose neuroscience
studies are fMRI scans of the

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brain.
And they have shown that, well,

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we are innately spiritual beings
and that the brain, whether

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someone is standing on a
mountaintop or kneeling in a

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Pew, there is a part of the
brain that lights up that is

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directly related to spiritual
experience and that everyone has

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that part of the brain.
And they have found that those

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who have rich, deep spiritual
life actually have more

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developed cortical thickness in
those areas that are also tied

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to decision making and emotional
control.

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So what they have found is that
if you have a deep spiritual

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life, you have lower markers for
the risk of depression and

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higher capacity for both empathy
and compassion.

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That's so cool.
That is so cool.

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So I think that what I take away
from this is really that we are

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all innately spiritual beings
and the way that we choose to

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embody our spirituality, to
engage with our spirituality can

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look different and doesn't
necessarily have to equate to

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religion.
I think that religion isn't if

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if you find a religion that
resonates with you, it gives you

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so much of what Doctor Lisa
Miller is talking about when it

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comes to a strong spiritual
life, right?

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It gives you language, it gives
you a framework, it gives you a

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place to worship, it gives you
community.

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And so that is amazing.
Maybe you like your family's

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faith tradition.
Maybe that works for you.

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Maybe you've found something
else that works for you.

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Religion is a beautiful way to
be a spiritual being, but it's

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not the only way to be a
spiritual being.

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And I think that that's where
you and I find ourselves today.

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Just about everywhere.
Interestingly, like I.

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Know.
Like we don't live in a gated

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community here in Florida, so
it's harder to connect with and

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find other like minded families,
but we're we are finding them

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and we're finding them through
the podcast, not just locally,

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but all over.
So that's an example of this in

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in play, right?
That's like the analogy there of

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having a place of worship versus
being spiritual, but a little

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bit more of a wonder.
Yeah.

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I mean, I think with everything,
like you identify as a rebel,

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right?
As someone who questions almost

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all rules and really has a much
stronger sense of right and

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wrong internally as opposed to
some type of external force, is

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that fair to say?
Whereas I am much more of an

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upholder where I like to uphold
my own internal rules, but also

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external rules as well.
And but marrying you, I think

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I've become much more of a rebel
in the sense that, you know, you

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and I like to do a we are very
intentional.

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I think that is the number one
word that our friends and family

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would use when it comes to us.
But you know, we were watching

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our new favorite show, at least
season 1 couples therapy the

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other day.
And one of the women on the

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couch with her husband is a very
intentional person.

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And the psychoanalyst asked her,
she said, you know, you are, you

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are obviously very intentional
and you have a strong direction

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on where you would like to take
your life.

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But as a psychoanalyst, I have
to wonder what is the shadow

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side of that?
What is the fear that comes up

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if you are not in control?
And that really hit me.

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It really hit me because I think
that we, well, I'll just speak

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for myself and say that I do
think that spirituality and this

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idea of surrendering to my
higher power is incredibly

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important balance and
perspective in my life because

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it is the flip side of all the
intentionality that we have.

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And so it is probably though not
something that I share with our

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kids so much.
And they probably see me more as

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this like control freak because
I keep these moments of grace

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and surrender.
They're really my own.

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Can we go a little bit deeper on
your alignment with your higher

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power and what your spiritual
life looks like today?

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Yeah, for sure.
OK, the idea that what was the

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book The War of Art?
Do you remember this book?

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I do.
Isn't this the one that

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originally gave you the term
fight the resistance?

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It is so fighting the resistance
in art, in life means when you

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don't want to do something, when
I don't want to do something,

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question why that is and it get
really curious about that and

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then fight against it because it
usually is going to be a

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movement towards alignment with
the universe.

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There's so many reasons that I
stay curious about resistance,

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but the main one is because I
know that when I sense that

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resistance and I push against it
and I open that door

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successfully, that's when I feel
most connected to the universe.

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So it helps me to not just fight
the resistance on any one

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occasion, but to search for
alignment and fight the

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resistance on all occasions.
So I guess what you're also

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saying is that the universe is
here, ready and willing to help

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you and to conspire to help you,
and sometimes you just have to

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hop back into alignment.
That's right.

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So if I may, Doctor Lisa Miller
has some ideas of how to bring

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spirituality into everyday
practice.

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And I would love for us to
consider them with our family as

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an experiment.
So the first one is serve other

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people.
Is the idea being that when you

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go outside yourself, you are a
living prayer of love, held,

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guided and never alone?
And I think that that is one

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that we are working to develop
with our family.

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Is this service arm service
engine, if you will.

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But even everyday ways of
serving other people, like if

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there's someone sick in our
community or someone needs us to

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take care of their pet, things
like that, really just, well, I

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don't know.
Is there anything you want to

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say about that?
No, I I agree.

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I, I see that our kids gravitate
naturally towards active

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service.
And so I feel like maybe there's

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something lost along the way in
not developing that muscle for

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me.
And I'm not just a witness.

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I I'm an active, curious
participant.

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Yeah.
So I think that getting into the

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habit of serving other people in
both big and small ways is the

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closest is like a very quick way
to to feel connection to

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something greater than yourself.
OK, so the first one is serve

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other people.
The second, which is my

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favorite, is to perceive
synchronicity.

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So thank the universe when you
experience unique, most

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improbable events.
And those don't happen all the

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time for me, but I do think that
they happen way more often than

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I realize.
For sure.

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These are like daily events I
think.

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OK, tell me more.
I've got this little journal

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prompt lately.
So in the morning I write down

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the lever for the day, which is
the most important thing to get

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done.
And then in the evening I write

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down 4 things.
One is the insight, any insight

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that I had.
So that's a good place to to

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look for the serendipity. 2 is
the shift.

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So like, what do I want to shift
into tomorrow?

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And sometimes that's just like,
oh, you know, today was a lot of

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creative thinking.
Tomorrow I'd really need to do

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blocking, tackling or this is
we're recording on a Friday.

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Friday was a great recording
session day.

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Tomorrow I just want to be with
my family and not be checking my

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phone or something like that.
And then the relationship, which

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is who or what do I want to have
a relationship with?

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Sometimes that's myself,
sometimes that's a version of

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myself, sometimes that's a
different version or

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relationship that that you and I
have.

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So like, instead of being Co
host tomorrow, let's just be

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whatever, right, Let's be
parents.

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And then the last one is recall.
So I made this one up because I

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realized that the day is just
like blur together.

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And so my recall is either a
moment of the day or just like

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I'll, I'll talk through the day
and how it went.

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And I usually find something
that I forgot already.

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And so I found that to be really
interesting, especially

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reflecting at the end of the
week, looking back at my week

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and seeing these journal
prompts.

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So maybe for you, it's just,
what's that one moment of

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serendipity that I saw looking
back at each day?

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Yeah, OK, I like it.
I'm also caught up a little bit

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because I'm a word nerd and I
said synchronicity and you said

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serendipity.
And so I'd like to actually talk

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about the difference between the
two of those.

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OK, So I'll tell you the
definitions and you can tell me

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like how you perceive the
differences.

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00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,640
But so synchronicity is a very
specific Carl Jung term that

230
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,080
means meaningful coincidence.
So it's when events occurred

231
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,840
together in a way that feels
connected, even though there's

232
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,200
no clear like causal
relationship.

233
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,200
So it's mysterious and spiritual
where the universe is trying to

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00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,120
tell you something.
Serendipity.

235
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,440
I don't think it has any
psychological relevance.

236
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,840
It's a happy accident, a chance
event that turns out to be

237
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,720
beneficial, and it's more of
like a lucky, playful, light

238
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,680
hearted type of thing.
Yeah, I think I use them

239
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:33,640
probably interchangeably because
I believe that you can't control

240
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:35,840
either.
But as Paul Graham says, you can

241
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,760
create more surface area for
luck, and that is what I believe

242
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,680
being in alignment with the
universe actually means is doing

243
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,000
the next right thing for even
when it's a hard thing to create

244
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,960
more surface area for lucky
events or synchronous events to

245
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,360
happen to you because you can't
'cause them to happen.

246
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:53,600
Sure.
Yeah.

247
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,520
I guess I think of serendipity
as like when we happen to run

248
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,160
into our friends at the farmers
market, that feels like a happy

249
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,760
accident.
Like I'm so happy that I got to

250
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,760
see their faces on a Saturday
morning.

251
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,640
I wouldn't say that it was a
deep spiritual experience.

252
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,400
It was just like it was a great
highlight in my day.

253
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,040
Synchronicity is like the fact
that you and I met at Zuma on

254
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,200
Wednesday, April 8th, 2015, when
neither of us were supposed to

255
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,560
be there.
Like that is synchronicity.

256
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:22,040
Yeah, that's very true.
Does synchronicity have to be

257
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,360
big events though?
It has to be deeply meaningful

258
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,440
events.
OK, so then yeah, those aren't

259
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,720
everyday.
Like we had one not even mutual

260
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,320
friend, like third degree
connection of mine kind of

261
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,400
thing, and friend of yours.
Like we had been in similar

262
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,520
spots, probably in New York City
one or two other times in our

263
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,560
lives, but neither of us were
supposed to be there.

264
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,880
And if we hadn't met that night,
it's not like we would have met

265
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,880
the next week or the next week
or the next week.

266
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,640
Like that was truly a once in a
lifetime opportunity.

267
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,120
It really was that we both
happened to show up and just

268
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,840
gravitated towards one another
immediately.

269
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,680
So true.
In front of DJ Jade.

270
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,640
I mean, there's so many more
crazy things about that story.

271
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,640
I had just gotten off a plane
earlier that day.

272
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,920
I buried my grandmother, not not
literally, but she had passed

273
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:18,040
away couple weeks prior.
I was right here in Delray when

274
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,680
when my grandmother was sick and
I was visiting her in the

275
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,200
hospital just up the road.
And I decided to make all these

276
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,440
big decisions after that because
I finally felt the weight of all

277
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,320
of my ancestors lifted off of
me.

278
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,280
My parents weren't around.
All of my grandparents had

279
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,720
passed.
She was the last remaining 1,

280
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,120
and I decided I need to live
life for myself.

281
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,120
And so I made some really big
decisions.

282
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,040
And when I finally came back to
New York 3 weeks later, Danielle

283
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,160
was right there and it was
unbelievable.

284
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,360
Do you want to say the other
thing?

285
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,600
You can say the other thing.
What's the other thing?

286
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,760
The other thing that I was
married, Yes.

287
00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:02,680
Yeah, I was married.
And I knew in my heart of hearts

288
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:08,280
that that was me looking for
continued family now that

289
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,960
everyone was dying.
The only reason I was going to

290
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,680
get married was because my dad
was still alive and he didn't

291
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,640
even live to see it.
And eight months into a

292
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,280
marriage, I was like, I'm sorry,
I just can't do this.

293
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,280
I don't want to have children
with this person.

294
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,320
And I came back to New York to,
to tie up those loose ends.

295
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,040
Otherwise I would have stayed in
Florida.

296
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,120
And later that night, like
having done the hard things,

297
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,440
fighting the resistance, pushing
through all of the

298
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,360
uncomfortableness, all of the
blowback from extended family

299
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:47,200
and, you know, people getting
really concerned about me and

300
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,640
decisions that I was making.
And I was just like, Nope, I'm

301
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,360
doing this for myself.
And I was living.

302
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,760
Yeah, that was probably the most
aligned I've I've ever felt.

303
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,000
Yeah.
So hopping back into alignment

304
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,840
with the universe, having
explicit difficult conversations

305
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,079
with people that you cared about
and really naming what you

306
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,480
needed like literally same day
turn around.

307
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,400
I mean, I think about our
meeting kind of the most

308
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,200
perfectly imperfect time for you
ever.

309
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,599
Like in what universe is are you
telling someone that you would

310
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,400
like an annulment by day and
meeting your future wife by

311
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,680
night?
It's wild, it's so wild.

312
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,320
Wouldn't even make a good movie
because it's not believable.

313
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,840
I.
Know and I don't consider myself

314
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,280
to be at the type of person who
would have gone on a date with

315
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,880
you had that not been known you
know what I mean had it not been

316
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,600
explicit that you were moving
towards annulment proceed

317
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,520
proceedings well.
I think it was, you know that

318
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,840
and you met a bunch of my
friends who were just like, so

319
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,560
happy to have me, just just like
happy to see me living in

320
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,920
alignment after.
Yeah, it was.

321
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,960
Palpable.
I was, I was in a really dark

322
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,920
place for a long time.
And you know, as we talked about

323
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,200
on the last episode, like, you
know, there's that's a that's

324
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,080
been a pattern and I didn't
understand it until much more

325
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,080
recently.
So it's the alignment that I've

326
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,080
been feeling with the universe
is really the purest sense of

327
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,640
like of am I feeling like I can
look myself in the mirror and

328
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,600
say that I'm happy with all the
choices that I made.

329
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,640
And today, I mean,
unquestionably.

330
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,440
But ten years ago, like up until
I met you, I had just started to

331
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,080
turn the corner and make those
changes after a really dark

332
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,360
period of seeing both of my
parents die, like 2 grandmothers

333
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:38,080
die, and being in a relationship
that didn't serve me, but that I

334
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,160
needed to get out of the New
York City spiral that was

335
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,240
otherwise going to bring me
down.

336
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,000
So yeah, synchronicity.
Synchronicity, OK, so serve

337
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,640
other people perceive
synchronicity.

338
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,200
And then the third one is to
pause and feel the sacred in

339
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,760
nature or in memories.
So basically she says like say

340
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,160
wow a lot.
And so I think this is a great

341
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,960
opportunity for us to share our
spirituality with our children

342
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,680
is really definitely episode 2
family stories, right?

343
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,960
But being in nature together and
experiencing awe and wonder and

344
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,600
just the power of things outside
of ourselves is also a great

345
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,200
opportunity to share our
spirituality.

346
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,320
Yes, absolutely.
We're in a great place for it.

347
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,800
What else do we want to say?
I feel very connected to the

348
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,880
universe because of you and this
family.

349
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,720
And I feel very connected to
this family because of the

350
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,960
universe.
It's like this, this is a

351
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,040
relationship that we do have
with the higher power,

352
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,000
everything that happens with
this family.

353
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,680
I love that, Yeah.
So when it comes to

354
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:51,200
spirituality, I would like to
spend more time sharing that

355
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,320
with all of you.
If I think about our last

356
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,360
episode was on joy and I was
like, I want to take some of my

357
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,840
joy back because it feels a
little bit too connected to all

358
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,200
of you.
I'm kind of saying the opposite

359
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,480
when it comes to my spirit, my
sense of spirit and

360
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,400
spirituality, which is that I
feel like I have made it such a

361
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,480
deeply personal and unique thing
that I would like to spend more

362
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,920
time being a little bit more
showy about it.

363
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,080
Like sharing it with all of you
in in a, in an attempt to really

364
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,800
authorize our children to have
their own spiritual journey.

365
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,240
I think for a little while
there, I have been concerned up

366
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,360
until this episode really that
my lack of sharing with our

367
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,440
children has caused them to have
a spiritual gap.

368
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,680
And I, I don't think that's
actually the case anymore.

369
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,800
So you know, just because we are
not having them say prayers at

370
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,120
night or having them go to
church on Sunday or doing

371
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,160
different rites of passage, all
of which are beautiful for those

372
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:51,640
that that it resonates with.
This past Friday, I asked Hunter

373
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,960
what God means to her.
It was actually hilarious.

374
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,960
We were out on the climbing Dome
after a Friday night family meal

375
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,240
and I said, Hunter, what does
God mean to you?

376
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,760
And this neighbor was like
walking by, walking her dog at

377
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,160
that right at that exact moment.
And must have thought that I was

378
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,760
so cringe like absolutely.
Because who hears?

379
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,400
And I heard her scoff and laugh,
But I mean, it was a laughable

380
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:14,320
thing.
I am.

381
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,800
I am that mom.
I'm that mom that asks what God

382
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,200
means to you on a Friday night
while you're playing.

383
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,200
So it's fine.
I own it.

384
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,080
But it was it was hilarious.
Anyway, so and so when we did

385
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,200
kind of open up that
conversation with our kids

386
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,240
leading with Hunter being the
oldest, I was profoundly

387
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,040
inspired by what I heard, which
was really that help me

388
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:39,840
encapsulate it, if you will.
But she said that God, she first

389
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,760
of all, she used the word
spirit, which I thought was

390
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,320
awesome.
And we haven't used that word

391
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,400
spirit in in talking with her,
but she said that you know what?

392
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,720
I feel God all around me and I
feel spirit everywhere.

393
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,800
And it's kind of the opposite of
you, mommy.

394
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,520
Like I can touch you or I can.
What did she say?

395
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,920
She said, I can see you, but I
can't feel you.

396
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,760
Whereas with spirit, I can't see
it, but I can always feel it.

397
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,160
Wow, it's awesome.
And then she said, you know,

398
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,440
mom, I feel like Spirit is
leading me when I have big

399
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:23,320
emotions that that is when I
feel closest to God, right?

400
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,240
And then we were talking a bit
more and I said, well, what do

401
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,200
you do when you want to tap into
God or Spirit?

402
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,120
And she said, I breathe.
She said, well, I always

403
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,400
breathe, but I breathe with
intention.

404
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,560
And that's how I connect to
Spirit.

405
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,920
Something's working.
I mean, so if that, I mean that

406
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,240
is her own compass.
And I'm so excited, like I'm

407
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,480
just so grateful.
And I guess exhaling because I,

408
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,800
I do feel like this is something
I've been avoiding.

409
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,680
But we are all innately
spiritual beings and we don't, I

410
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,360
guess I was really worried that
if we didn't give them a

411
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,000
religion, they would not have a
spiritual connection.

412
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,280
And that's not what I'm finding.
No, not at all.

413
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,600
Not at all.
So that feels good, yeah.

414
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,600
I think the last thing to bring
up, if I may, is 1 important

415
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,880
lesson from the Boundaries
episode that I think carries

416
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,920
over here.
There's a lot of people in our

417
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,840
children's lives who are
religious, and what we've asked

418
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,600
of them is that they just talk
about religion from their

419
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,360
perspective.
They never share anything about

420
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,800
matter of fact.
Right.

421
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,160
It gets back to this idea of
allowing the children to explore

422
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,600
their own spiritual lives,
right?

423
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,680
And I think that all of the
adults and all of the religious

424
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,000
folks in their lives have been
very respectful of this request,

425
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,920
which is that they will share
what God means to them, maybe

426
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,280
what heaven and hell mean, but
in a way that is deeply

427
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,480
personal, as opposed to one that
is telling the children that

428
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,400
that is how they must believe as
well.

429
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,320
Yeah, exactly.
And I always thought it was odd

430
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,000
growing up 'cause we we went to
the Presbyterian Church, but it

431
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,240
was only my mom, my brother and
I that would go and my dad would

432
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:15,240
not go except for Christmas Eve.
And I do feel like in a family

433
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,640
where you're exploring, where we
are exploring spirituality

434
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,680
together, it's important to
explore together.

435
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,520
We've tried going to some
different services as a family.

436
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,560
And I think that it's important
that we all went together, even

437
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,000
if any of us were feeling some
resistance me about it.

438
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,000
It's really important.
And and that's the thing that I

439
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,800
want to model for my kids is to
know that they are loved and to

440
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,680
know that I'm there to support
their exploration.

441
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,400
And I, I show up with an open
mind, even if it's not

442
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,880
necessarily a space that I feel
comfortable exploring.

443
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,280
I want to be there to hold their
hand as they explore it for

444
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,520
themselves.
Yeah, that's thank you for doing

445
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,920
that.
Really, thank you.

446
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,480
Because I do think that this, it
doesn't have to be that deep is

447
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,480
what I want to say is that like
we can all explore together.

448
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,960
And if we go to a House of
worship, that doesn't mean that

449
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,160
you are immediately
indoctrinated into the culture,

450
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,920
right and into the religion.
We can explore and have a a deep

451
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:16,760
respect for for other religions,
for religions in general without

452
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,600
feeling like it has to be the
one that resonates with us.

453
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,840
I mean, for me, there is so much
in any House of worship that I

454
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,760
have ever been in when it comes
to singing and being part of a

455
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,080
community that is so spiritual
that I'm happy to to take what I

456
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,520
like and leave the rest, if you
will.

457
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,800
And sometimes we show up for
other people right inside and

458
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,920
outside this family.
And sometimes we show up because

459
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,240
we're going through something
and we are really in need of a,

460
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,760
a space that is safe and
welcoming and full of love.

461
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:48,880
Yeah.
That's right.

462
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,600
Yeah.
It's it's really a beautiful

463
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,440
thing to just be in it together.
Absolutely.

464
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,240
So what can we commit to when it
comes to the spirit that is a

465
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,600
part of our everyday lives?
The dialogue with our kids is, I

466
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,720
would say, the most important
because understanding more about

467
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,640
when the spirit shows up for
Hunter and what she's been

468
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,800
feeling.
I mean, this is a kid that can

469
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560
go, they can't go to the
doctor's office, but that can

470
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,160
get on stage in front of
hundreds of people no problem

471
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,120
and thrives in that environment.
So just trying to understand

472
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,560
from her where she's really
feeling that higher power.

473
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,040
I I want to do more of what
about you?

474
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,040
Yeah, I really like this idea of
exploring together.

475
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,040
I'm thinking about the latest
season of White Lotus, where the

476
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,600
daughter was like, actively
wanting to become a Buddhist,

477
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,880
and no one in her family really
wanted to support her, and they

478
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,560
were very scared.
And that's kind of like the

479
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:43,280
antithesis of what I want.
I truly, deeply want my children

480
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,840
to explore their own spiritual
journey, and I am excited to see

481
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,280
how it's different from mine.
Honestly, I think that I can

482
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,840
learn a lot from what resonates
with them and I look forward to.

483
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,000
Absolutely just no pina clottis
I know.

484
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,880
Yikes.
Yeah.

485
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,920
So definitely committing to
that.

486
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,440
And then also, I think this idea
of awe and wonder, talking more

487
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,800
about synchronicity, but then
also just saying wow a lot and

488
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,520
really naming it when I feel
connected because I do feel

489
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,960
connected to the universe and to
my higher power all the time,

490
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,840
especially especially at
sunrise.

491
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,840
And lately Jade and Hunter have
been coming with me for my

492
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,480
Winston walks and I think that
that would be a great time to

493
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,240
share with them so I can commit
to that as well.

494
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,080
Yeah, sounds great.
Cool.

495
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,600
OK, great.
I love talking about Spirit.

496
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,880
Thanks for connecting with me on
this.

497
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,440
Yeah, me too.
I want to keep exploring this

498
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,720
topic with you too, not just
with the kids.

499
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,600
OK.
Yeah, that sounds great.

500
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,840
Yeah, I think there's more to
do.

501
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,640
That's a really good point.
Do you have any ideas?

502
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,200
Part of it we're doing already.
Like the most important thing,

503
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,800
yeah.
But and part and this is an

504
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,520
outlet for exploring more
together.

505
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:02,680
I don't know what the other part
is.

506
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,680
OK, I have an idea, but you can
tell me if you don't want to do

507
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,680
it.
But could we just like try it

508
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,400
tonight?
So the the poem that was read at

509
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,480
our wedding is from a book
called The Prophet by Khalil

510
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,360
Gibran.
What do you think about maybe

511
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,880
reading a passage of that like
before bed when we get in bed

512
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,880
each night?
What if you could we try that

513
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,680
tonight?
Just like reading it, maybe

514
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,000
reflecting upon it for like a
couple of minutes before bed?

515
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,600
Yeah.
I mean, I must say I've been

516
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,400
getting a little fatigued by we
have a evening practice where we

517
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,440
go through each one of our
values.

518
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,280
Have 12 values and we talk about
1:00 every night for one month

519
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,360
and we've been doing that for
like 6 years, six or seven years

520
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,120
I guess.
I I think it might be time to to

521
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,200
try something like this.
Like a little book club?

522
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,600
Yeah, OK.
I love the book club.

523
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,440
I think I'll, I'll be more
present for that as well then,

524
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,280
OK, as opposed to something that
that needs to be reflecting on

525
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,480
the on the whole day.
Let's just like, show up and be

526
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,240
curious.
Yeah, and like.

527
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,400
Learn something new.
Kind of more pull versus push,

528
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,080
if you will, something that's
coming to us and to reflect

529
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,160
upon.
OK, that sounds great.

530
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,920
Let's try it tonight.
Cool, I'll get the book out.

531
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,360
OK, yay, yay.
OK, love you goosy.

532
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,480
Love you goosy.
Hey guys, if you're still here,

533
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,160
you're definitely our kind of
person.

534
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,160
Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important

535
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,680
Thing.
If this episode resonated with

536
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,160
you, we'd love for you to follow
us wherever you get your

537
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,320
podcasts and share it with
someone else.

538
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,080
Building family culture on
purpose.