TMIT 43: Why “Use Good Judgment” Isn’t Enough – What Kids Actually Need as Independence Grows

1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,640
Welcome to the most important
thing.

2
00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,560
I'm Danielle.
And I'm Greg, and together we're

3
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:06,760
exploring family, culture and
leadership at home.

4
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,360
We are indeed.
So we are still storming

5
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,600
starting to norm a little bit I
guess is what is the traditional

6
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,079
way of saying it.
Starting to norm.

7
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,200
But one thing that we've noticed
over the past couple of weeks

8
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,120
and that we wanted to talk about
today is that the kids are

9
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,400
getting so many beautiful
opportunities for increased

10
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:27,880
independence.
Yeah.

11
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,280
And for the most part that's
gone really well.

12
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,040
Like they are showering by
themselves now.

13
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,560
It's.
Incredible.

14
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,920
I don't think I showered by
myself until I was.

15
00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:42,680
Ten Yeah, they're currently
learning to say may I please be

16
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,160
excused instead of just leaving
their plates disgustingly on the

17
00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:49,520
table and their chairs not
pushed in.

18
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,800
I like that they're saying that.
Yeah, just like little tweaks,

19
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,480
right and towards autonomy and
independence, which feels really

20
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,600
good.
We were probably having a nanny

21
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,160
for so long whose, you know,
purpose and joy in life was

22
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,400
taking care of them in those
ways.

23
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,720
They became a little immature,
especially I would say Hunter is

24
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,920
the oldest, right?
So there's some there's some

25
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,240
growth to do to kind of just
catch up around the house.

26
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,320
So there have been some high
highs and some low lows.

27
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,640
Like you had to help Maverick
out of a stranger's car a couple

28
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,320
weeks ago after we lost him.
We want to go straight to that,

29
00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:30,200
OK, That is definitely the other
side of showering by yourself

30
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,880
exactly when dad has to pull you
out of a stranger's car after

31
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,920
you've been lost for 20 minutes.
Yes, indeed.

32
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,680
So being asked to make more
decisions is, I think, really

33
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,440
exciting for the kids.
But it's scary too, because they

34
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,600
want to do a good job, right?
They want to have increased

35
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,480
independence, but they don't
always know what doing a good

36
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,880
job or using good judgement
looks like.

37
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,440
And so I have been so guilty of
saying just use good judgement.

38
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,440
Be a noble neufeld.
And what we've realized is that

39
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,960
we have to think through what
needs to be solid within our

40
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,160
family and within their own
knowing before their

41
00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,560
independence can expand.
Sure.

42
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,520
So basically like we've moved
from this phase where they had a

43
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,360
nanny and things were being done
for them and now they're they're

44
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,880
really interested in being more
independent and we're giving

45
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,640
them those gaps to fill, right?
We're like, oh, Denny used to do

46
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,360
this for you.
Now you're doing this yourself.

47
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,560
Mommy and daddy did not do that
for you.

48
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,120
It's easier to close that gap
when there's when.

49
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,440
We have like a natural break.
Right.

50
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,680
There's a natural break.
But with that independence comes

51
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,720
the desire for more
independence, because they're

52
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,360
like, oh, I'm putting my plate
in the dishwasher.

53
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,400
I'm showering, Can I ride my
bike to school?

54
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,120
You know, things like that,
right?

55
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,880
Yes, absolutely.
And so that's what we're talking

56
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,960
about here is how to make sure
that they have at least some

57
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,080
heuristic of how to put some
judgement around things that are

58
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,880
going on if we're not there.
Yeah.

59
00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,400
And so we've been thinking
through it and you know, I've

60
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,600
been researching as I do.
And so today what we're going to

61
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,680
talk about is really a two
question heuristic that we've

62
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,280
come up with to encourage our
children and have discussions

63
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,400
about supporting them growing in
their independence.

64
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,720
So it really comes from the
world of dynamic decision

65
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,200
making.
And this is researching how

66
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,800
people like fighter pilots or ER
doctors actually make decisions

67
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,280
in rapidly changing and dynamic
environments.

68
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,880
And it's called an OODA loop.
That's OODA, which stands for

69
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,640
Observe, Orient, Decide, and
Act.

70
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,680
And so for today, to keep it
developmentally appropriate with

71
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,520
our kids and really continue our
journey of making the implicit

72
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,240
explicit, we've come up with two
simple questions grounded in the

73
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,880
Orient and decide portions of
that loop so that we can have a

74
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,520
framework to talk to our kids
about what they may encounter

75
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,560
when they're increasing their
independence and for them to

76
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,200
really carry with them when
we're not around.

77
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,680
Yeah, no, I I love this.
It's the just the art of

78
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,160
decision making in and of itself
is so fun to explore.

79
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,240
And so taking it to
developmentally appropriate from

80
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,880
fighter pilot feels a good place
to start.

81
00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,840
Well, because I think what we've
learned thus far is that the

82
00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:27,320
independence doesn't usually
break down because our kids are

83
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,400
being reckless.
It's because they're misreading

84
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:32,640
the situation.
Yeah.

85
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,200
And so some of that is going to
come with time and experience.

86
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440
But if we can get them in the
habit of asking themselves

87
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,520
questions about like what
matters most here and is this

88
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,720
mine to decide or do I need to
ask someone else, I think that

89
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:57,120
this can go a long way in making
them feel ready for the

90
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,160
increased the growth and
independence that that we are

91
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,960
giving them opportunities for.
Well, I I completely agree.

92
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,320
I mean, most things that we're
told as kids are extremely

93
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,760
subjective and come from a place
where the parent has had some

94
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,120
bad experiences.
So like, you know, watch out

95
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,920
careful safety first.
Those are things that we impose

96
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,400
on our kids from day zero,
right?

97
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,560
And like, what does that
actually mean, right?

98
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,320
What does safety first mean?
Right.

99
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,240
And I think we'll talk about
that today.

100
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,160
And so by the end of this
episode, we hope that you will

101
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,880
be able to carry with you 2
questions that you can bring to

102
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,280
your dinner table tonight and
start talking with your family

103
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,080
in situations where they've got
a new technology device or they

104
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,960
decide they want to start
walking to school, how they can

105
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,400
Orient themselves and decide in
a way that keeps them safe and

106
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,440
aligns with your family.
Yeah, no, this is this is a

107
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:56,760
great, great topic and perfect
for 2026, the 250th year of our

108
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,320
nation's independence.
There you go.

109
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,680
Exactly.
So why don't we back up a bit

110
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,600
and talk about how we got here?
OK, so I love this quote from

111
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,560
Henry Ford where it's that
failure is simply the

112
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,880
opportunity to begin again, this
time more intelligently, because

113
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,400
like most things, the way we got
here is through failure.

114
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:21,320
And that specifically came up
when Maverick got lost for quite

115
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,160
a bit of time and we had to have
a small search party for him

116
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,240
about a month ago.
Yes, it did.

117
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,960
Yeah, so Hunter, Jaden Maverick
went to walk four blocks to the

118
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,680
neighbor's house for their first
kind of like free range

119
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,400
impromptu playdate, right?
The plan was for them to just go

120
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,800
knock on their door.
We gave them our little Apple

121
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,040
Air Tags as as watches and I was
like creepily but fondly

122
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,560
watching them walk away right
do.

123
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,200
You remember it was a very it
was a rite of passage for you

124
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,320
and for them right to to to
watch them walk.

125
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,360
Both of us, right?
To watch them walk into the

126
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,360
distance 6 blocks away or.
Whatever.

127
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,280
I know you would have thought
that they were going to college

128
00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,120
or something, but I did it and I
think we were both so proud of

129
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,160
ourselves and.
Then we're standing in the house

130
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,000
by ourselves and we're like,
this is great.

131
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,480
Like, what do we do, right?
But about an hour and a half

132
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,120
later, we went to pick them up,
and it turns out that they did

133
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,320
find their friends and they
started having a play date.

134
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,080
But then another neighbor was
having a party, and there were a

135
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,320
ton of kids there when we walked
in, right?

136
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,560
It was the most idyllic scene.
The kids were like swinging from

137
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,960
the trees and climbing over
fences.

138
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,320
It was truly for me what dreams
are made of when it comes to

139
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,400
this outdoor childhood.
But Hunter came up to us right

140
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,600
away and was like, mom, dad, I
cannot find Maverick.

141
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,880
I don't know where he is.
And at first we were like, oh,

142
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,560
they're like 17 kids here.
He's probably mixed in.

143
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:48,960
We were saying hi to our
neighbors.

144
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,720
But pretty quickly it became
very clear that he wasn't there.

145
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,280
And I was like, Greg, check the
tracker.

146
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,880
And I checked and he was a good
six blocks away.

147
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,000
Yeah, which was shocking.
Right, and not towards our

148
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,760
house.
So he was.

149
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,800
He had wandered.
Indeed.

150
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,440
And so at that point you jumped
in the golf cart, Yes.

151
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,000
I jumped in the golf cart and I
went to the spot where the air

152
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,080
tag watch that he was wearing
said that he was and he wasn't

153
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,920
there.
And I was like, OK.

154
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,680
And so I'm just driving slowly,
looking for my son or for

155
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,360
anybody that might have seen
him.

156
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,000
And a car comes the other way
and rolls down the window and

157
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,799
it's like a black SUV.
And it's like, are you looking

158
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,840
for a little boy?
And I'm like, yeah.

159
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,440
And they said, OK, thank
goodness we have him here.

160
00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:47,480
So they pull over.
I pull over, Maverick comes out

161
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,200
of their car.
It was a very nice family, thank

162
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,560
goodness.
And I said, what happened?

163
00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:57,480
And they said we just saw him by
himself walking and he was

164
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,120
clearly didn't know where he
was.

165
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,160
And he was crying.
And, you know, I gave Maverick a

166
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,720
big hug.
I put him in the golf cart.

167
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,680
I came to get you and the girls
at our friend's house.

168
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,760
And we all went home, but not
before I turned to the girls.

169
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,400
And I was, I was a little harsh
with them.

170
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,640
I said, you know, you felt stick
together.

171
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,760
This is not what we do.
We don't let our little brother

172
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,680
get lost and end up in a
stranger's car after 15 minutes.

173
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,480
This is, you know, this the
first time that anything like

174
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,360
this has happened.
So I didn't really know what to

175
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,120
do, what to say.
But I think this is where we

176
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,600
come back to what we decided
after that and how we would have

177
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,760
asked the girls to act in that
situation had they been able to

178
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,240
play the tape back and and do it
again.

179
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,880
Yeah.
And so when we did get home, we

180
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,040
did some damage control.
I guess I like to call it a

181
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,280
retrospective or post mortem on
like, WTF, Like what actually

182
00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,280
happened here?
Because what we realized is that

183
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,720
I was thinking about the walk
there, right?

184
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,480
I assumed that once they got to
the street where all the little

185
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,600
kids play, they were going to be
safe.

186
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,680
They were going to be able to
look out for each other.

187
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,640
But that's not what actually
happened.

188
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:17,640
And So what I've realized is
that we cannot assume that we

189
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,720
will be able to think through
every scenario, right?

190
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,440
And like, we thought them being
in a group was going to mean

191
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,600
that they were safe, but we
hadn't talked through what

192
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,320
happens if they get invited to a
party impromptu, right?

193
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,960
And the environment gets
chaotic.

194
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,200
And what actually ended up
happening with Hunter is that

195
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,360
she knew pretty quickly that
Maverick was gone, and she was

196
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,240
very distressed.
She was trying to do the right

197
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:53,520
thing and find him, but she
didn't feel comfortable asking

198
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,840
the host of the party who she
knows well but who didn't invite

199
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,640
her there to ask for help.
And so she and her other friend

200
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,800
went and looked for him.
So, you know, I'm glad that we

201
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,360
took the opportunity to unpack
what went right and what didn't

202
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:16,560
go so well because we very
quickly at first were like, you

203
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,760
didn't do your job by using good
judgement, by taking care of

204
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,960
your brother.
But that's actually not what was

205
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,920
happening at all.
It was just that she didn't

206
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,480
really know how, like, what
mattered most.

207
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,680
And so, you know, when we got
home, So what we learned later

208
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,800
was that Maverick had decided in
the way that Maverick often

209
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,840
does, that he didn't feel like
being at the party.

210
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,560
He wanted to go back to his
friend's house where they had

211
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,440
Star Wars toys.
And a train.

212
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,800
And so he asked Hunter to put
his shoes on and then promptly

213
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,160
left because he thought that he
could find his way to that

214
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,600
house.
Right.

215
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,000
And he had told us later that he
wasn't even really scared.

216
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,520
He was just sad because he knew
he was going to get in trouble,

217
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,560
which I think, considering what
happened, he didn't get in too

218
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,120
much trouble.
But, you know, we did.

219
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,600
We took some time as a family
after this experience and we got

220
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,160
out the whiteboard and we made a
list of the things that went

221
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,640
well and did not go well.
And I think it was really

222
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,120
important to do this because a
lot of things went well.

223
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,320
First of all, our fail safes
worked.

224
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,400
Our trackers went well.
We were able to find him

225
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,080
quickly.
People are genuinely kind and

226
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,760
they were able to walk
independently to the house.

227
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,720
So that those were some really
good things.

228
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,600
When we started to unpack what
didn't get go well, obviously we

229
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,080
spoke with Maverick about making
sure that you tell someone

230
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,120
before you leave somewhere,
right?

231
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,520
But for Hunter, this really
wasn't a failure of being a

232
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,480
noble Neufeld.
It wasn't a failure of

233
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,120
character.
If anything, she was so

234
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,800
incredibly devastated because
she does see herself as

235
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,280
Mavericks protector.
It was a failure of orientation.

236
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,880
In that moment, safety and
finding Maverick mattered more

237
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,840
than politeness, and finding
Maverick wasn't hers to solve

238
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,160
alone.
Yeah.

239
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,680
So if she had been armed with
our two questions, what matters

240
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:26,720
most here and is this mine to
decide or do I need to ask for

241
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,040
help?
I want to believe things would

242
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,880
have gone differently.
Me too.

243
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,760
So we realized that we've needed
to move beyond telling our kids

244
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,320
to use good judgement.
And this is our first pass,

245
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,280
right?
These two questions are our

246
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,800
initial way of talking to our
kids about how to Orient and

247
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,160
decide because they're going to
be making more decisions without

248
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,440
us, right?
So now that we've been armed

249
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,840
with this heuristic, we've been
using it in other ways.

250
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,840
And another one that just came
up this past week is that the

251
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,200
girls are starting to walk home
from school.

252
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,720
And this is a baby step process
where it's AI do it, then we do

253
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,000
it, then you do it, right.
I used to take you home from

254
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,880
school.
Now we will do it together and

255
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:15,320
eventually you will do it alone.
And so step one has been, OK,

256
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,880
I'm not going to pick you up in
the car line.

257
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,640
You're going to do a walking
dismissal and I'll meet you 500

258
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,280
feet from dismissal at the front
of the church stairs.

259
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,080
And so a couple days ago in the
morning, I asked Jade, I said,

260
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,720
Jade, if you were to be on the
church stairs today after school

261
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,040
and a dinosaur were to come and
try to eat you, is it more

262
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,960
important to run back to safety
or to stay on the stairs?

263
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,400
Because that's what you agreed
with, Mommy.

264
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,360
And what'd she say?
I would stay on the stairs.

265
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:46,720
Because that's what you told me
to do.

266
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,560
That's what you told me to do.
And I'm so glad that we had this

267
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,440
conversation because she really
thought, and this is very jade

268
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,520
like that if mommy tells me to
do something, I have to do it at

269
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,640
all costs.
So I said, actually, that's not

270
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,960
right.
Safety matters more than

271
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,040
sticking to the plan.
And I promise you that choosing

272
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,280
safety will never get you in
trouble.

273
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,400
And this is your decision to
decide.

274
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,440
You need to trust your instincts
and if something feels unsafe to

275
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:25,040
you, you retreat to safety.
And I promise to never, ever get

276
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,800
mad at you for that.
Yeah, that's that's such an

277
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,280
important notice.
So I'm so glad that we had this

278
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,640
conversation with Jade because
of the thing that we're learning

279
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,840
is that when it comes to
increased independence, the

280
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,720
answer is going to be safety 1st
and staying aligned with your

281
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,040
team #2 right as a close second.
So these are what we would call

282
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,880
invariant priorities when it
comes to decision making, right?

283
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,840
Yeah.
But there are other

284
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,200
opportunities to use this
framework where safety may not

285
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,560
be so much of an issue and it's
really getting down to what

286
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,840
matters most here.
So a good example of that is

287
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,960
that we, at Family Meeting this
past weekend talked about what

288
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,480
we're going to do with the Tin
Can phone once it arrives.

289
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,840
So perhaps you all listen to our
episode with Chet Kittleson, the

290
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,600
founder of Tin Can.
But if not, it is a landline for

291
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,240
kids.
So harkening back to the good

292
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,280
old days and a way to give them
independence and autonomy

293
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,120
without giving them a cell
phone.

294
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,440
And the kids are very excited
for it, their classmates are

295
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,040
very excited for it.
But we have to set some ground

296
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,240
rules.
Yes, and going back to last

297
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,440
episode as far as defining my
own expectations, I realized

298
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,040
that we needed to have this
conversation around what matters

299
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,160
most and when can you decide?
Because this was a real setup

300
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,120
for control for me, where on the
one hand, sunshine and rainbows

301
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,560
I I love the idea of giving her
because it's primarily Hunter

302
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,520
giving her this independence,
and on the other hand, the last

303
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,160
thing I want is her sitting
inside having silly

304
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,119
conversations with her friends
for hours in the afternoon,

305
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,280
right?
And or coming to us and saying,

306
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,480
Hey, guess what?
You know, so and so and I just

307
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,000
decided we're going to do this.
And then we're like, no, we have

308
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,480
this.
And she then melts.

309
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,480
Down.
Yeah, exactly.

310
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,920
We had to have this conversation
around.

311
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,400
We're getting this phone.
What matters most here and what

312
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:34,640
we came up with is that it's
really a tool for coordination.

313
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:41,160
What we value in this family is
real life interaction, play

314
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,600
dates and adventures with your
friends, right?

315
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,440
And so Tin can currently, and
this can evolve as they get

316
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,160
older, but Tin Can currently is
really a tool to coordinate

317
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,440
opportunities to either have a
play date, go on an adventure,

318
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,280
walk to school with your
friends.

319
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,760
Yeah, closer to a walkie-talkie.
Exactly, yes, because those

320
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,000
don't go that far as we know.
And then the second question

321
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,640
that we asked is when do you get
to decide and when do you need

322
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,360
to ask, right.
And so thankfully with Tin Can,

323
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,600
a lot of the parameters are
already, we can already set

324
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,720
those like the numbers that will
allow to have call and the times

325
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,640
that they will be calling.
But within those times, Hunter

326
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,960
is allowed to pick up the phone
and call her friends, right?

327
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,200
But if someone calls and asks
her for a play date, she needs

328
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,280
to check in with us first.
She can't just automatically say

329
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,920
yes, right?
And then we made a little

330
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,120
checklist for, OK, if you can
go, what do you need to do

331
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,400
before you leave, right?
Which is very important and

332
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,640
that's just making sure that we
all feel good about her decision

333
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,200
to have more independence
because it shows that she can be

334
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,440
independent here and here, not
just with play dates and.

335
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,760
Right, take accountability and
responsibility around the house.

336
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,960
So that checklist looks like
tidying up your space, make

337
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,680
making sure that your personal
hygiene is on point.

338
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,360
Like, have you brushed your
teeth today?

339
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,560
Do you have stains on your
clothes from breakfast?

340
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,680
Real life situations that we
debate over, right?

341
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,280
Yeah.
And you know, what do you, what

342
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,920
do you need to bring with you?
Your water, your snack, your

343
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,360
apple air tag to make sure that
we know where you are, Right.

344
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,000
So I think this has been a
really great way to use these

345
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,520
two questions to prepare us for
increased independence.

346
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,920
I mean, that's really why I was
excited to do this episode is

347
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,080
because I think that these two
questions, while simple, are a

348
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,160
tremendous heuristic for
providing independence to our

349
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,120
kids and giving them tools that
that can actually set them up

350
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,840
for success versus leave
nebulous, you know, questions

351
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,320
unanswered or not feel safe
because I was able to do it this

352
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:55,960
time, but not this time.
Right.

353
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,720
And I think that there are so
many unknowns and that's why I

354
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,040
love pulling from.
Naturalistic decision making and

355
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,440
things like the OODA loop,
because this is, as you would

356
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,520
say, it is a solved problem.
It is.

357
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,960
And so if we can inch towards
making the implicit explicit in

358
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:20,040
this time where so much is new
for us, if we can just nail down

359
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,120
two questions to really use as a
launchpad to discuss these

360
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:28,240
different scenarios.
We're never ever going to be

361
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,840
able to account for all the
things that are going to happen

362
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,080
when we're not around.
But at least we can start to put

363
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,360
in the reps around what are our
families values?

364
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,680
How can you Orient yourself
around things like safety and

365
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,360
staying aligned with our team?
Yep.

366
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,880
Yeah, no, agreed.
You know, I love that OODA loop.

367
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,240
I love that slow is smooth and
smooth is fast.

368
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,160
And that tied back into the OODA
loop where I, I think it was a

369
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,520
pilot that said, if you make
really good decisions and are

370
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,200
great at orienting yourself
faster, you'll get faster and

371
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,440
faster and making those
decisions, which is how you

372
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,680
appear to be unexpected to the
enemy.

373
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,600
Which is like, the faster you
can solve these problems, the

374
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,120
more unpredictable you are
because you're solving really

375
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,000
fast problems and they can't
Orient themselves around how

376
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,360
quickly you're able to solve
them.

377
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,200
Right.
So decision making is like a

378
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,080
whole different rabbit hole that
I'm very excited to go down.

379
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,360
And there's a lot of great
literature for both adults and

380
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,280
children in that realm these
days.

381
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,640
And I, you know, so it is
definitely my Trojan horse here

382
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,080
to start with these two
questions and really turn them

383
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,840
into master decision makers.
Yeah, they're I, I love this.

384
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,480
Can I do a quick coda on the
Maverick situation?

385
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,160
Yes, absolutely.
So after we found Maverick, the

386
00:21:53,720 --> 00:22:00,040
family that had put him in the
car and returned him to me said,

387
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,080
you know, you might want to call
the Delray police because we we

388
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,800
called as soon as we found them
and let them know that there's a

389
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,120
child out there and, you know,
they might want to do like a

390
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:10,960
home visit.
And so I'm like, oh,

391
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,520
interesting.
I never thought about that.

392
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,800
You lose a child, someone wants
to come in and make sure that

393
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,880
your home is OK.
So even in Florida.

394
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,560
Even in Florida.
So I, I call the police and I, I

395
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,280
talked to the dispatcher, get a
call back from the officer that

396
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,320
was assigned to the situation
and I walk him through what

397
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,160
happened.
And, and I said, you know, and

398
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,760
we were able to locate him
because I had an air tag on him.

399
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,480
And, you know, I went to the
location, found the, the family

400
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,480
that found him and all was good
within 5 minutes.

401
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,920
And he was like, wow, you put an
air tag on your kid, you're a

402
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,600
really good parent.
And, and that was it.

403
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,200
And he said, I'm closing this
one.

404
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,200
So out there, there are many
variations of how to put air

405
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,280
tags on your kids, but the one
that we found is cute little

406
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:01,040
watch style wristbands and
they're like $5 on Amazon.

407
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,200
You buy an air tag.
It's a it's a pretty good way to

408
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,280
give your children a invisible
fence, if you will, and, and

409
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,000
understand where they are
without needing to worry about

410
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,720
losing them in a crowd or at an
amusement park or, you know,

411
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,920
things like that.
Yeah, and I like the watch

412
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,960
better than the shoes because
the kids take their shoes on and

413
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,440
off, right?
So sometimes that doesn't work

414
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,040
as well.
So I think the watch is actually

415
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,360
a great one, Yeah.
And to quote Maverick, why don't

416
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:28,640
the people in the car just bring
me back to my friends house?

417
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,520
He's just thinking that everyone
in the neighborhood knows

418
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,240
everyone.
Yeah.

419
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,440
Which is, you know, kind of like
a little cute idea for him that

420
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,120
he actually could.
You know, I, I put myself in his

421
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,640
shoes and I feel a little
empathy for his situation where

422
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,320
he just wanted to go back and
play with the toys.

423
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,520
Yeah, I understand.
So someday we will ask him to

424
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,640
think about these two questions,
but in the meantime, I think his

425
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840
sisters need to provide those
answers for him.

426
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Absolutely, yeah.
So the next time that your kids

427
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,560
ask for more independence, we
encourage you to not just ask if

428
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,960
they're ready to use good
judgement like I did.

429
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,160
Ask yourself whether they are
carrying the right questions

430
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,640
with them.
What matters most here?

431
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,840
And is this mine to decide or do
I need to ask for help?

432
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,400
That is how independence grows
without breaking your team

433
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,960
alignment.
Couldn't have said it better.

434
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,800
That's thanks.
Please let us know if you end up

435
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,280
using these two questions to run
other scenarios with your kids.

436
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,080
We would love to hear how
they're working for you.

437
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,080
Yes, we.
Would.

438
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,160
So until next time, we hope that
we've given you something to

439
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,240
think about today because as
parents, we don't need more

440
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,720
advice.
What we need is more permission

441
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,320
to lead.
Thanks for joining us on the

442
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,640
most important thing.
Love you goosy.

443
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,400
Love you goosy.
Hey guys, if you're still here,

444
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,080
you're definitely our kind of
person.

445
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,120
Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important

446
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,640
Thing.
If this episode resonated with

447
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,120
you, we'd love for you to follow
us wherever you get your

448
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,280
podcasts and share it with
someone else.

449
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,040
Building family culture on
purpose.