TMIT 30: Mindset Reset Part 2 – Building a Culture of Growth at Home

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See, this is it's going to suck
in like a real if I hit myself

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in the face with a microphone.
OK, Welcome back to the most

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important thing.
I'm Danielle.

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And I'm Greg, and together we
are exploring how to build

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family, culture and leadership
at home.

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That's right.
So welcome back everybody to our

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second episode on Mindset Reset,
as we're calling it.

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There's that shimmy again.
I love.

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The mindset reset.
This one is really focused on

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how to build a culture of growth
at home.

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So in our last episode, we
talked about what we often get

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wrong about growth mindset,
which is primarily that

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everybody has growth.
We have a fixed mindset about

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growth mindsets.
Yeah, right.

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That's the ironic thing is that
the oversimplification of growth

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mindset in our culture has LED
us to have a fixed mindset about

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growth mindset.
So we're really everybody has

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growth and fixed mindsets inside
of them and different contexts

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and different situations can
trigger different mindsets.

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Right.
And so last episode we brought

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up 4/4 of those situations,
right, based on the work of Mary

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Murphy in her book The Cultures
of Growth.

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So, so far we've been talking a
lot about mindset at an

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individual level.
What happens inside of us or the

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kids when they get triggered?
But Mary's research shows us

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that mindset isn't just
personal, it's cultural.

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And so today we would love to
talk about the kind of 2 ends of

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the spectrum that Mary Murphy
sets out.

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One, kind of the aspirational
culture of growth and on the

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other side, the culture of
genius as she calls it, which is

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a little tricky for me, but
that's the one that we don't

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necessarily want to emulate.
And so really the environment

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can determine whether these
triggers that we talked about in

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our last episode and let me just
run through them for you.

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So evaluative situations, high
effort situations, critical

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feedback, and Greg's favorite,
the success of others.

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So whether these same triggers
lead to fear and rivalry or

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collaboration and growth, and
what we'd like to do today is

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translate what Mary Murphy's
research tells us about

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organizations on a corporate
level into family life, because

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we we find the parallels
abundant.

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Yeah.
And I, I'm definitely finding

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that the more present I'm able
to be with my family, the more

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present I'm able to be in the
workspace and the more creative

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I'm getting at work.
It's just it all flows together.

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So I love this tying business
back to family, which somehow

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rebounds back into everywhere
else.

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Cool.
Yeah, I love that for you too.

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Yeah.
OK, great.

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So today let's talk about what
kind of culture we want to

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foster because as the leaders of
our family, we really do have an

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opportunity to set the mindset
culture.

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And in Mary's book, she really
gives us a tale of two cities,

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if you will.
So on the one end of the

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spectrum, there is the culture
of genius, which that 1 is

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really either a you have it or
you don't culture.

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I think this like probably one
of the best examples is GE under

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Jack Welch, where he fired the
bottom 10% of the workforce

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every year.
And it was very much a star

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culture where people that were
perceived as high performers

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continued to get more and more
of the special projects.

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So there was a lot of signalling
as to the haves and the have

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nots.
And it's really what you'll see

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across cultures of genius is a
lot of internal competition, a

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lot of comparison, and that
leads to outcomes that are

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suboptimal, like hoarding
information, risk aversion, and

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a focus on status and reputation
over learning.

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Yeah, I mean, how can you play
as it?

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Like I think about the Davis Cup
for tennis where I'm like, look

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at all of these amazing tennis
players that Duke it out against

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one another playing together and
enjoying the success of tennis

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as a team.
Like taking an individual sport

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and making it a team sport.
That is a beautiful thing to

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watch.
But like that's not what comes

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to mind when you think of
tennis.

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You think of like one-on-one
stars like this guy versus that

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guy, that girl versus that girl
and who is the best in the

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world.
And that is that is really kind

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of a lot of like what business
looks like today.

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It's about people and individual
performers inside of

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organizations.
And then those people get

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poached and you have Meta
paying, you know, half a billion

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dollars for signing bonuses, for
signing bonuses for, you know,

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one AI engineer who's like the
All Star.

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Can you tell us a little bit
about the Davis Cup for those of

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us that aren't familiar of how
it's different from traditional

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tennis?
Davis Cup is like, it's kind of

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like the the World Cup of
tennis.

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It's just countries playing
against other countries.

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And you know, the, the US has a
pretty strong showing this year,

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but so does all of Europe
because Europe has produces

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amazing tennis players for sure.
So it's just, and it's fun.

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There's there's it's singles and
double s, there's coaching

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involved.
There's the Andre Agassi's, the

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men's coach of the Davis Cup
this year.

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So like, you know, it's, it's a
lot of fun.

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And they just held one of the
qualifying tournaments here in

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Delray.
So that was that was pretty neat

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to see.
Just like this, this little

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tennis town of ours that we've
got is is opening up to the

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world stage.
Cool.

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Very cool.
Yeah, I think that's probably

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the same, you know, for like the
World Cup, say, all these

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different soccer stars on
different teams across the

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Premier League and whatnot, and
then playing for their

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countries, right?
Or even the Olympics.

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Like I think about the NBA and
the stars that play for America.

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It's a totally different vibe
when they're collaborating,

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right?
But I think the Davis Cup is

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such an extreme because it's,
it's an individual sport like

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in, in, in, in the NBA and in
soccer.

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You're playing on teams.
You're just now mixing up the

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teams to produce all the stars
from that country or from, you

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know, whatever this is.
This is taking a a sport of

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geniuses and putting them in a
collaborative environment.

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Yes, very cool.
OK, so translating the culture

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of genius into family life.
Now what I'm about to say is I'm

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sure not true of anyone's family
as it's being illustrated here,

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but I can speak for myself and
just say that I'm definitely

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guilty of some of these things.
But it is a culture where

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there's a core belief that this
is the smart kid, this is the

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athletic kid, this is the
creative one, right?

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So labeling is prevalent and
talent is seen as fixed.

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It's a very results focused,
approval based, and mistakes are

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seen as failures.
So the outcome of that is an

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environment where there's lots
of sibling rivalry and constant

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comparison, as well as behavior
such as kids hiding mistakes or

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bad grades or trying to avoid
new things and parents

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unintentionally reinforcing
labels like she's the sporty

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one, she's the creative type.
So the outcome of that is an

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environment where there's less
risk taking, more competition

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and fragile self worth.
Now contrasting that with Mary

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Murphy's culture of growth, the
core belief in a culture of

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growth, and again, this is the
aspirational optimal culture is

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1 where everyone can learn, grow
and contribute.

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The environment is 1 of
collaboration and shared

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learnings.
And so you'll be, you'll see

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behavior such as mistakes are
normalized.

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There are learnings happening
from everyone in the group and

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there's a real focus on
effective effort.

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So what strategy is used?
Who supports those people and

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how did they pivot when maybe
the effort or the direction

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someone was taking wasn't
working so well, as opposed to

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like a blind persistence in
pursuit of a goal?

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And so the outcomes that Mary
notes in Cultures of Growth is

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that you'll see greater
innovation, resilience, and long

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term success of these
organizations.

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Sounds pretty nice, right?
For sure the I mean, we talk a

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lot about the idea of family as
a team and in in team sports, we

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can still have stars, we can
have people that excel at one

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thing or another.
But the difference is we are

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looking as a team at how we can
scaffold those individuals all

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together to achieve their best.
And that individual is looking

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to scaffold everyone else.
It's not just about all eyes on,

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you know, Jade because she's
going to be a jiu jitsu champion

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and let's drop everything we're
doing to travel across, you

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know, across town, across the
state, across the country to go

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to her performances and skip
over everything that Hunter and

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Maverick are doing because
they're never going to achieve

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the level of success that she's
achieving.

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That is not that's a culture of
genius, a culture of growth is

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Jade really loves jiu jitsu.
Let's have Hunter practice with

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her at home because Hunter loves
it too, but might not be as

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good, but can be her sparring
buddy and Jade can help Hunter

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with her ballet or her dance or
whatever like and Maverick can

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be, you know, can be the not
just the cheerleader, but also

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the girls can be teaching him a
thing or two.

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So I do think that this idea of
family as a team is is a great

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visual for what a culture of
growth looks like in an in an

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optimum state.
Yeah, I really think that a

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culture of growth is one that
says that learning happens here

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and that regardless of your
innate talent, this is a place

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where you can achieve great
outcomes because we are going to

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support you on that path.
You brought up something that I

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think is interesting that I
wanted to mention from Susan

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Dominus's book that I recently
read called The Family Dynamic.

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She highlights research that
shows that in underprivileged or

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under resourced families, you
are much more likely to see all

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resources move towards the child
that has some innate talent OR *

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abilities, right?
Which makes a lot of sense

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intuitively because that that is
their best chance to see growth

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from a generational perspective.
But the you find that the

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opposite is true in privileged,
well resourced families where

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they tend to allocate more
resources to the laggard, if you

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will, the child that needs more
scaffolding and support.

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And so I just find this to be a
really interesting, I just found

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this to be really interesting
anecdotal.

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It's it's research really
interesting around the the way

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that your privilege really talk
decides how you tend to allocate

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resources within the family.
And I think the vibe that we're

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going for is one that doesn't
see anyone as a star, but

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doesn't see anyone as a laggard
either, but really tries to look

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at each individual, kids and
adults included, as perfectly

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imperfect people that have
strengths and weaknesses, but

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that there's a, there's a
culture of learning being

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fostered so that if you want to
achieve in any realm, whether

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you have raw talent OR not, you
can.

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Yeah.
It's a.

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It's a great identification of
two different approaches,

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neither of which are culture of
genius or culture of growth in

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their own right.
It's all about the

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implementation.
So all right.

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So now we've talked a bit about
what a culture of growth looks

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like in an organization and then
so translating that into family

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life.
So in a culture of growth from a

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family perspective, this would
be one in which the core belief

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is that everyone in this family
can learn, grow and contribute.

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So it's much more of a process
mindset than a results only

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standpoint, A-Team mentality,
and where mistakes are seen as

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learning opportunities and
there's a lot of collaboration.

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It really reminds me of the team
at #12 that we did on Courage,

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where we talked a lot about Bill
Belichick's book, The Art of

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Winning, and two of the
takeaways being normalizing

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failure and seeing mistakes as
learning opportunities.

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And This is why I think it's so
important that we look across

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realms, because who knew that
Mary Murphy and Bill Belichick

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and Ray Dalio, we're going to be
talking about all the same

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things, right?
Across finance and football and

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organizational behavior.
But the truth is, it's all the

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same stuff, right?
And So what Bill Belichick is

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finding around normalizing
mistakes is exactly the same

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thing that Mary Murphy is
finding in some of the most

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innovative technology companies
and Fortune one hundreds that

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she has learned from in her
research.

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So some ideas from a family
perspective are that this is an

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environment of collaboration
where siblings are allies, not

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rivals.
Mistakes are shared openly and

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success is celebrated as an
inspiration, not a threat.

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So as far as how to translate
the culture of growth into our

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families, a few ideas.
One would be to normalize

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00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,000
mistakes, right?
2 would be to create feedback

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loops, because in cultures of
genius, feedback often feels

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like a personal attack or a
threat.

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But in cultures of growth,
feedback is frequent, low

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stakes, and normalized.
Especially if we always show up

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with the right amount of
believability when it comes to

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feedback.
And so as parents, we can show

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up with be empathy.
We can show up with a lot of

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things, but sometimes we might
be out of our depth when it

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comes to giving actual feedback.
And so I think that we need to

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00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,440
say, I think that you should do
this, but let me check and let's

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00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,520
look at it together, you know,
or let's video it and see what's

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00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,680
going on.
As opposed to like, like you

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00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,280
need to move your left foot
faster.

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00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,800
Like, I don't know, I haven't
ridden a bike, you know, learned

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00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,640
to ride a bike in a long time.
Yeah.

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00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,520
I mean, I, I hear you.
I think that's I think that's

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00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,840
great and I think that is part
of personal humility, which is

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so important in any leadership
context, but particularly when

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it comes to family.
I also think that normalizing

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mistakes as a family starts with
the parents modeling it.

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And so I think that creating a
culture where mistakes are

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normalized, whether it's at, you
know, during a weekly family

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00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,760
retrospective where we're
talking about what went well and

255
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,400
what didn't go well for the
week.

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00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,440
Another idea from a friend that
I heard in their family, they

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00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,440
really value failure because
that means that you're taking a

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00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,000
lot of risks.
And so the mom will jokingly

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00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,720
say, I'm, you know, are you
stealing my failure crown

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because I'm the one that makes
the most mistakes around here.

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00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,280
Like are you trying to come for
my crown?

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00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,920
Talking about, you know, really
just emphasizing and, and

263
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,440
highlighting something that
could be perceived as shameful,

264
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,400
right?
Making mistakes, having

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00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,120
failures, as, you know, really
flipping that script and saying

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no, that this is what we do here
as a family.

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Like the more mistakes you are
making, the better because that

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means that you're taking risks.
And so I think that's a

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00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,000
wonderful example of a family
really taking, taking on a

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,880
growth mindset when it comes to
when it comes to, you know,

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effort and all different types
of risk taking situations.

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I totally agree.
Most of the mistakes we make, we

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00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,440
make in private and or in our
head or, you know, in doing

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00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,600
something silly.
It's hard to make a blatant like

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00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,560
overt mistake that, you know,
everyone sees and and call

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00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,320
attention to it.
So we have to bring these things

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00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,960
out, right?
We have to talk about them and

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00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,280
when they show up, you know, I
remember Hunter saying to me

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00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,320
like she made a mistake in
something and I'm like, you

280
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,960
know, this, this happens all the
time.

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00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,360
And she's like, what are you
talking about?

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You never make mistakes.
And I'm like, whoa, let me tell

283
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,400
you something.
And I felt so I felt horribly in

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00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:58,480
the moment because it, I noticed
that back to this creating a

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00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,640
fixed mindset in kids because
we're just adults and do things

286
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,599
with more coordination, more
experience.

287
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,839
Like she hasn't really seen me
make mistakes and I don't really

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00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:09,560
talk about the mistakes that
I've made.

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00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,760
And this is an opportunity to to
flip the the script on that.

290
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,720
Yeah, and again, another through
line here from episode 2, Family

291
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,079
Stories is just building that
intergenerational self share

292
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:25,520
struggles, not just successes.
Even just this morning, Hunter

293
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,080
and I were having a conversation
about difficulty making friends,

294
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,800
and I found myself giving her
colloquialisms or quotes, and

295
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,160
then I just started telling her
about my own experiences.

296
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,720
And that's when the connection
really happened is when not, you

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00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,160
know, I can tell her, you know,
if you love something, let it go

298
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,440
and it comes back, it's yours.
But it's not until I actually

299
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,160
get down in the hole with her
and share about times when I've

300
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,000
had trouble making friends and
felt lonely and things weren't

301
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,440
going well that she really feels
that support.

302
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,600
Yeah, no, it's, it's a tough
thing to watch as a parent.

303
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,360
Like especially having gone
through that and being on the

304
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:11,920
other side like it, it's like
those those balls that swing the

305
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,800
pendulum that like it's like,
oh, I thought that I was done

306
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,480
with this and then boom, now I'm
seeing the other side of the.

307
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,160
New way.
Welcome to parenting, right?

308
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,240
Welcome to family leadership,
right?

309
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,480
Welcome to family leadership.
OK, so, but you know what, in

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00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,640
fairness, like we've talked
about this a bit on the podcast

311
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,320
as far as normalizing mistakes
and creating feedback loops.

312
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,400
Like I feel like those are those
are important points, but maybe

313
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,840
a little bit overdone.
And like, I think our audience

314
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,920
knows those things.
The the real aha moment and the

315
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,520
reason why I wanted to have a
Part 2 is because of the way

316
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,320
that Mary Murphy talks about
recasting competition.

317
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,520
Competition is inevitable.
And actually, honestly, as a

318
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,320
very competitive person myself,
I think it's a good thing.

319
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,880
I think it is an innate Dr. that
we should support as humans.

320
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,400
And so kids are going to
compete.

321
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,680
We have three kids.
They love to compete against

322
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,560
each other.
That is natural.

323
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,680
But as leaders we have the
opportunity to shift the

324
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,600
competition away from who is the
smartest, who is the fastest,

325
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,480
who is the most creative towards
contribution, towards who is

326
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,440
actually moving our team
forward.

327
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,000
And that I think is the real
innovation here that I've heard

328
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,560
that I've really only heard Mary
Murphy talk about, which is her

329
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,480
insight is that in these high
performing organizations they

330
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,840
accept that there is competition
and that competition itself is

331
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,520
not bad.
It matters what dimension you

332
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,160
compete on, what are you
competing towards?

333
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,560
What is the thing that is going
to drive the organization

334
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,520
forward?
And then so in addition to on

335
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,720
what dimensions are we
competing, it's how do we

336
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,160
incentivize and what is the
story that we tell about that

337
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,800
achievement, right.
And so in families, what this

338
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,480
means is not who can clean up
the dishes the fastest, but who

339
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:09,360
is the person that is creating
the assembly line so that we all

340
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,480
effectively clean up together.
Does that make sense?

341
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,120
Yeah, it's a challenge to be to
compete on an even playing

342
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:22,240
field, which is not necessarily
speed or agility, but it's up

343
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,480
here, it's thinking through what
can we do to clean up more

344
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,440
effectively and that's where we
can all compete.

345
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,080
As a team, it kind of reminds,
it does remind me of what you

346
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,880
had said in our last episode
around Simon Sinek's request,

347
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,280
which is I want everybody to
come up with 15 ideas.

348
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,680
But I recognize that some of you
will be the idea generators and

349
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,680
some of you will be the idea
executors.

350
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,400
And I want to make space for
both, right?

351
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,920
And so Mary asks us to think
about on what dimension are we

352
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,320
competing?
And so I would suggest that

353
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,200
that's really Harkins back to
each of our own family values

354
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,640
and what what do we want to
highlight and put forth as

355
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,680
worthwhile, right?
How do we incentivize?

356
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:12,360
So, you know, we're not a big
rewards family, but I do want to

357
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:18,760
encourage us to think about what
we like, any type of artifact

358
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,120
that we could create for
accomplishment.

359
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,520
There's a great example that
where Mary Murphy mentions from

360
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,440
a tech company, she doesn't say
which one, but that they, in

361
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,560
addition to monetary rewards for
their employees, did things like

362
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,640
give people a preloaded Kindle
with books from with all the

363
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,800
favorite books from their CEO.
So what they're doing is in the

364
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,920
reward they're showing their
values and saying we value

365
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,360
learning here.
And so we are going to reward

366
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:51,200
you with more learning, right?
And I think that that's a really

367
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:59,200
great way to provide some type
of tangible reward that aligns

368
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,160
with the values of the culture.
Agreed.

369
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,200
Agreed.
I like the idea of artifacts

370
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,640
that celebrate something that we
all stand for.

371
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,920
That can be a reward in and of
itself, so that's cool.

372
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,680
If anybody out there has any
good examples of artifacts like

373
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920
that I would love.
I would love to hear it.

374
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,680
Like I'm thinking of my friend,
her family, like maybe there is

375
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,040
really a failure crown like that
somebody can wear, right.

376
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,160
And then the third thing, and I
think this is such an important

377
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,880
aspect of this is what is the
story that we tell when we

378
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,160
highlight an achievement?
And so we want to tell the story

379
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,880
not just about the outcome, but
about the distance travelled to

380
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,560
achieve that outcome.
And this is something that

381
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,320
really is the crux of what Adam
Grant talks about in his latest

382
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,880
book, Hidden Potential, which is
it's not how far you get, but

383
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,640
the distance travelled rather
than the innate starting or

384
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,160
ending point.
And why is that?

385
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,800
It's because rather than trying
to stoke competition, what we're

386
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,560
actually trying to do by
highlighting achievements is to

387
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,840
illuminate the strategies and
supports used to reach the goal.

388
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,280
So not just how talented are you
at the at the start, but who did

389
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,480
you ask for help?
Where did you seek support and

390
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,280
where did you get stuck and have
to pivot?

391
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,040
All right, So I really like this
idea of recasting competition

392
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,280
because I think that it'll
really help guide us when we

393
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,040
start to see the kids getting
competitive around how can we,

394
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,240
how can we pivot this
competition towards something

395
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,600
that is actually contributing
towards a family goal?

396
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,320
And I think that you just, you
used that Simon Sinek stuff this

397
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,040
weekend.
Yeah.

398
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,000
Just around family meeting when
instead of like, whose idea is

399
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,200
going to make it into the
learning or the problem to

400
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,200
solve?
I was basically just sharing

401
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,480
that it doesn't matter the idea
because just because it's your

402
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,120
idea doesn't mean you're the
right person to execute on it.

403
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,520
Yeah, I think that was a real
innovation because especially

404
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,920
Hunter has had a ton of ideas
for family learnings during

405
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,920
family meeting, assuming that
she's going to be the one that

406
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:10,040
gets to lead the exercise.
But just de facto, a 7 1/2,

407
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,520
almost 8 year old is going to
have more ideas than A5 or a

408
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,760
three-year old, right?
And so I think that we're

409
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,520
already finding that separating
out the idea from the execution

410
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,560
of the idea can be really
helpful in kind of leveling the

411
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,160
playing field towards this
culture of growth where

412
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,640
everywhere the team is growing
as opposed to just one star.

413
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,040
Yeah, no, I I love this stuff.
I can.

414
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,640
Well, does anybody else feel
like their first kid is just

415
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320
really wanting to be the star?
Like, I think it's totally

416
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,800
natural and it's not, it's not
necessarily it's not a bad

417
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,880
thing.
Like I think it's totally

418
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,760
natural.
But I do think that these little

419
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,320
nudges that we can make towards
a teen mentality will serve our

420
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,920
oldest child, but but serve
everyone in the family for years

421
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:57,840
to come.
Sure.

422
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,760
I mean, I think that we're
actually fighting gravity a

423
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,160
little bit with the idea that
the oldest is not going to be

424
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,000
the.
I know it's a really big deal to

425
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,520
me though.
Like I really, I want to flip

426
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,400
these, you know, perceived or
real family dynamics on their

427
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,080
head.
Well, it's tough because I, I go

428
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,720
back to like how things were,
you know, from a diet and

429
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,120
nutrition perspective, you know,
before the advent of

430
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,080
agriculture.
And I think about that.

431
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200
But if I think about how family
life was before the advent of

432
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,120
agriculture, yeah, the oldest
child was definitely being

433
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,080
propped up and definitely going
on the hunt and definitely was

434
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,520
being turned into the leader
because that's what you did with

435
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,720
strength and ability.
Right.

436
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,160
And so, you know, I, I want to
just tell you though, for what

437
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,560
it's worth, because this was
also some of this research was

438
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,080
also in the family dynamic book
that I recently read.

439
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,400
And so she says that findings
show that the more children

440
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,080
there are in a family, the more
pressure parents put on a first

441
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,360
child.
They encourage the oldest to set

442
00:25:56,360 --> 00:26:00,040
a standard and an example.
And that pressure seems to be

443
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,160
effective.
So the idea is that the later

444
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,160
the later the child is in the
birth order, the fewer children

445
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,320
they have to set an example for
so it matters less.

446
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,600
But it says that the pressure
seems to be effective because

447
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,640
oldest children are often
academically the strongest

448
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,680
amongst their siblings, and 1st
borns are 30% more likely than

449
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,080
third born siblings to rise to
the top ranks.

450
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,760
In corporate environments, older
siblings are significantly more

451
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,240
likely to run for office and
win, and that birth order is a

452
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,160
better predictor of that success
than gender or even education

453
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:35,840
level.
Wow, I.

454
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,920
Mean that's the gravity.
Like that's the yeah, that's the

455
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:46,200
natural force in the universe
that is saying that that is.

456
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,640
And therefore, you know, thus
shall be unless you really work

457
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,160
hard to change it.
Like that's what's going to

458
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,720
happen.
So, so I mean, some of this

459
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,360
family culture building is a
grand experiment, right for us.

460
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,920
And I think that when I think
about our family compass and

461
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,480
like our North Star, it's I
don't want our children's lives

462
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,920
to be dictated by birth order
any more than they have to be.

463
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,080
You know what I'm saying?
Like I don't.

464
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,960
I think that there are a lot of
beautiful aspects of being the

465
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,600
first, second and third and but
I'd love to kind of normalize or

466
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,080
level the playing field to the
extent that we can.

467
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,360
For sure, I look the the reason
to do this is I think about how

468
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,200
many people are just genuinely
unhappy, right?

469
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:32,880
What a statement I.
Mean.

470
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,240
Just like, let me catch up.
I if, if I, if I look at men,

471
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,120
for example, and like
undiagnosed men's depression,

472
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,360
that is a significant issue in
this country, as evidenced by

473
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,520
opioid epidemics and other
things.

474
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,800
OK, Now, when we talk about the
first born, how many of those

475
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,600
men were not the first born that
like probably wanted, I don't

476
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,760
know, but probably wanted to do
like it had not everyone could

477
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,080
be the first born, right?
And by definition, more people

478
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,560
aren't the first born than are.
And so there's a lot of, of

479
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,560
longing and yearning to do
something beyond.

480
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,040
And so I think our mission here
is to make sure that each child

481
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,080
is set up for success in, you
know, despite the birth order

482
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,000
and that happiness and
unhappiness is not dictated by

483
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,800
the chances and the shots on
goal that you didn't, that you

484
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,560
got or did not get.
And that's really what I think

485
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,240
is like the the place for us to
see the child as opposed to see

486
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,120
the age or see the ability.
Yeah.

487
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,400
No, I'm totally with you.
As far as seeing the child as an

488
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,600
independent person, I guess I
would shift to the language

489
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,920
around that being our mission as
to that being an opportunity and

490
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,520
to just, you know, more than
ever through this podcast,

491
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,880
through the books that I've
recently read, like I'm seeing

492
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,000
how parents really do have
limited ability to nail the

493
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,360
trajectory for their children.
And that the best we can do is

494
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,600
to create an environment.
And that's why I think that

495
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,600
this, this talk around mindset
and creating a culture of growth

496
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,600
is so important because as
leaders of our family, really

497
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,360
all we can do is set the values
and the expectations.

498
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,760
And then the individuals and to
some extent their sibling

499
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:26,280
dynamics, I think really are the
pieces that are going to like we

500
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,400
launched them in the air and
they set that trajectory for all

501
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120
of us, not just even for the
kids, but like it's really up to

502
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600
us to take the environment that
we are creating here and to do

503
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,520
something with it.
Yep, absolutely.

504
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,360
And we can destigmatize things
like strength, talent, passion

505
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,360
and entrepreneurial ability,
which are very fixed mindset

506
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,280
types of things in today's
society to show that everyone in

507
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,480
our family can have all of those
things.

508
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,800
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that growing up, it was

509
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,640
very much an achievement
culture, right?

510
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,360
And a lot of that, at least for
me, what I felt is that like,

511
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:11,080
OK, I'm naturally good at XY and
Z, therefore I need to stay in

512
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,640
those lanes, if that makes
sense.

513
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,640
As opposed to no, I can actually
lean into those and grow even

514
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,280
stronger, or I can kind of grow
across any domain that I put my,

515
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,160
that I put my mind to.
It feels like you know so much

516
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,440
of what you shared in the last
episode about triggers.

517
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,720
I realized that there's so many
things that were wrapped up that

518
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,960
I have wrapped up in my own
identity and that the more I

519
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,680
identify with something, the
more likely I am to have a fixed

520
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,240
mindset about it.
That's that ego.

521
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800
Yeah, that's right.
Well.

522
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,000
Great awareness and thanks for
leading us through this Part 2

523
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:49,680
here.
Yeah.

524
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,760
So if I can ask you of all the
things that we've talked about

525
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,960
today, what would what do you
find to be the most important

526
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,920
take away for our listeners?
I think it's the idea that a

527
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:05,640
fixed mindset shows up in family
in particular areas like first

528
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,640
born, like strength, like just
like that number of ideas for

529
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,120
for, you know, family meeting,
right, like, and I'll go, I'll

530
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200
hit it again.
Passion and entrepreneurial

531
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,600
ability, I think are big ones
that our kids aren't really at

532
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,440
yet, but I want to make sure
that they have growth mindsets

533
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,400
when it went as it applies to
all these things.

534
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,880
And so I'm going to lean in on
the, you know, getting unstuck

535
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,040
around, you know, just because
it's hard means that I'm not

536
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,720
good at it or just because, you
know, Hunter's good at this

537
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,400
means that I can't be good at
it.

538
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:47,680
Like getting those things out of
our orbit through both pointing

539
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,560
out the flaws in in those in
that logic, but also getting in

540
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:56,000
the hole and sharing my mistakes
and sharing, you know, my, my

541
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,720
struggles.
How about for you?

542
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800
I really like this recasting
competition towards contribution

543
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,400
idea because I just know how
innate it is, at least in each

544
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,640
member of our family to compete.
And so the fact that we can

545
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,720
compete towards something that
contributes to a team goal as

546
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,520
opposed to who's the fastest,
who's the best drawer, etcetera,

547
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,680
really feels good.
And I'm excited to look for

548
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,400
opportunities where we can kind
of take that innate drive to

549
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,920
compete and pivot it towards
something that actually

550
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,520
contributes to our family as a
whole.

551
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,080
It's too bad Family Double Dare
went off the air.

552
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,000
Yeah, they have Family Feud now,
but I think you have to be a

553
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,680
celebrity and you've got.
Not yet, no random pop culture

554
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,280
of things.
Yeah, we don't know any of that.

555
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Stuff.
Yeah, exactly.

556
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,120
So we'll we'll figure it out
though.

557
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,280
OK, cool.
Well, I think this about

558
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,000
concludes our Mary Murphy
cultures of growth mindset

559
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,000
reset.
I think, you know, this is

560
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,360
something that I believe will
stick with us for for years to

561
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,120
come.
These these lessons will be

562
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,160
coming up again and again.
So yes, that's something to look

563
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,200
forward to.
Yeah.

564
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,480
And I'm really glad we did.
This me too, and I hope we gave

565
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,400
you all some things to think
about and experiment with and

566
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,200
have fun with in the course of
your family culture

567
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,720
experimentation.
That's right.

568
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,760
Cool, cool love you goosey love.
You goosey.

569
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,880
Hey guys, if you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of

570
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,040
person.
Thanks for spending this time

571
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,640
with us on The Most Important
Thing.

572
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,600
If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to follow

573
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,960
us wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with

574
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,720
someone else.
Building family culture on

575
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,280
purpose.