TMIT 27: Parenting Gurus and the Business of Anxiety

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I can never help but do a little
shimmy when I say that.

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I love the shimmy.
OK, good.

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Welcome to the most important
thing.

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I'm Danielle and I'm here with
Greg.

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And today we have a very special
episode for you, one that I am

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very excited about, but also a
little nervous because I want to

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get it right.
It is called Parenting Gurus and

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the Business of Anxiety.
And if you're anything like me,

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you have a real love hate
relationship with parenting

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advice.
And this week Greg and I got

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curious and did some research as
to why that is and really how

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parenting advice has changed
over the years, particularly

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post COVID.
Yeah, I I think that we are

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genuinely curious about why some
of the people out there that

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have the followings that they
have, what are they making

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everyone latch on to?
Yes, and what does it say about

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our society when we are all
listening to their message on

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repeat?
I think we should get into it.

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So your toddler screaming at the
Target checkout line or your

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teen slams the door.
These moments sting, but they

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are not our whole story as
parents.

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And yet today, an entire
industry thrives on making us

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feel like they are.
In talking to some friends about

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this episode, here's what I
heard.

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I feel like I'm trapped in this
guilt loop of kid having

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chantrum, me feeling guilty
about how I handled it because I

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didn't stick to the script, and
then overcompensating to soothe

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my guilt.
I am essentially allowing 1 bad

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moment to over shadow a whole
day of good or another.

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When I tell you I follow nothing
parenting related, I mean it.

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It all wrecks me and makes me
feel like I'm failing every day

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and I can't handle it at all.
I so resonate with what they're

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saying.
And yesterday when I opened up

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my discovery page on Instagram
the first thing that I got

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pushed was these 7 parenting
habits accidentally create

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anxious kids.
And I'm like, Oh my God, like

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what did I do wrong to forget to
turn off the light switch?

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And now my child is going to
need therapy for the rest of

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their life.
Like things have gone too far.

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And so today we'd love to unpack
how this has happened, how we

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have taken something that is
really valuable and helpful and

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turned it into an industry that
now the first thing that comes

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up when you Google parenting,
the next thing says is hard.

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And that that is just something
that we all take for granted.

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How are we accepting this?
Yeah, we shouldn't.

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We shouldn't be.
So today I'd really like us all

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to just consider that it doesn't
have to be that way, that yes,

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parenting is hard sometimes, and
yes, just about anything that we

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do that is meaningful, that has
purpose, is hard sometimes.

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And that we can finish that
sentence, we can say parenting

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is hard, but meaningful
parenting is hard sometimes and

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worth it.
Parenting is hard at times, but

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it brings me joy.
There is more to say than just

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parenting is hard.
It really sucks from a just

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human psychology perspective
because if you're a man, young

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man or young woman in business,
what you're getting pushed is

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you can do it like I've done it.
You can do it.

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This is how you do it.
You have to focus on, you know,

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your mind and body.
You have to focus on doing the

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next right thing, even if it's
counterintuitive.

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You have to focus on 1st
principle playbooks into

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understanding your customer.
But like, you can do it.

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And if you're a parent, you're
not getting any of that

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positivity.
So all the psychology you're

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getting is you're doing it
wrong.

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You need help.
You're doing it wrong.

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You need help.
You're under equipped.

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We're all under equipped.
Yeah, this is hard.

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We're in contrast.
So I think that both are showing

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the path but one is coming from
a place of competence.

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What you are saying is that
there is a path like if you have

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a start up, we are going to help
you develop your go to market

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motion.
You can do this.

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What parenting gurus are saying
is you are under equipped.

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Literally parenting is hard.
I'm going to give you this path

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so that you can feel whole.
So it's starting from a deficit

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as opposed to starting from
competence.

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It's it's crazy making.
So what do we want our listeners

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to take away by the end of this
episode?

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And then I'd love to introduce
the two personalities.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So today Greg and I have put on

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our journalist hats and we are
going to expose both the

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psychology and the business
model behind what we call in

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software terms, this painkiller
approach to parenting and offer

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a better way to really see the
daily greatness in your family,

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one that's already there.
And so by the end of this

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episode, I would love if we can
all develop a true understanding

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of how current parenting gurus
exploit certain psychological

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biases that are all hardwired
into us and use pain point

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marketing to keep us hooked.
I think this is something that

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so many of us already know and
can feel when we have this like

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visceral response to more
advice.

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But this episode is really about
making the implicit explicit and

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talking about the specific
psychological biases and the

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specific model that feels so
icky.

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And if there's one thing that
you take away from this episode,

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it's that you already are enough
and you have and we have as

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parents so much to offer family
life that we can build upon it.

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It's not a message of you're
under equip or this is too hard.

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It's one that says we get to, we
get to have family life and we

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get to use what's already inside
of us and build upon it to

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create joy, connection and
belonging within our families.

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Yes, all of that, all of what
you said.

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Let's get into it.
Let's introduce our three main

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characters from 2 post pandemic
businesses.

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So Big Little Feelings is the
duo of Kristin Gallant, a parent

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coach, and Dina Margolin, a
child therapist.

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They started out during the
pandemic and their knack for

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Instagram got them to now three
and a half million followers.

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But that's not that number that
I think is crazy.

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The number that I think is crazy
is $99 a course.

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Over 400,000 people have signed
up and paid for that.

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Wow.
So this is a big business.

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This is $40 million in revenue
in five years.

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Wow, kudos to them.
Kudos to them.

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Yep.
Yeah, no, it's wild.

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And I think it's probably can be
safely said that the most

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influential voice right now is
Doctor Becky Kennedy.

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She is a child, a clinical
psychologist by training, but

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again turned to pandemic
Instagram following into an

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empire.
Her membership platform alone

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has more than 60,000 paying
subscribers at $276 a year, so

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millions in recurring revenue.
She's got one of the top

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consumer AI products, her good
inside product, and everything

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that she puts out reads like
crisis alerts.

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And so taken together, these two
businesses are not outliers,

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right?
These are some of the most

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prominent examples of a business
empire that has been built

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around pain point marketing in
parenting.

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Is that fair to say?
Seems like it.

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Yeah, and they're really big
businesses.

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And so today we want to unpack
the psychology and the business

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model behind them so that we can
all be informed consumers of

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their content.
I do have OneNote, which is I

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don't want to lose sight of the
fact that these gurus have done

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something very important.
And they have highlighted that

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there are times when we as
parents need help.

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And they have given us
permission to see our kids as

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good inside, right?
A good kid having a hard time.

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There's been a lot of there's
been a lot of beautiful things

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that have come out of the
lessons that they have taught

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us.
It's the business model that

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wants annual membership, that
wants constant consumption, that

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has created this idea that as
parents, our livelihood depends

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on constantly having a script to
solve the next rupture, right?

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And so when empathy becomes the
product, problems become the

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currency.
And this is the business model

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that we find ourselves in today,
one that is repeatedly focused

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on negative stimuli so that
parents leave with increased

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anxiety and just see parenting
as a bunch of fires to be put

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out.
And when we fail, when we don't,

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as my friend told me, when she
doesn't come up with the right

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script, it's like that one
suboptimal moment takes over an

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entire day.
I mean, I know the feeling it's

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it sucks to to be fed some new
sales or, you know, strategy

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course.
And it feels like everything is

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so smooth when you read it or
when you listen to it and then

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you're on a call and it's like,
OK, what do I say now?

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What do I it's so hard.
I, I totally get it as someone

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who loves to learn things and
then immediately put it into

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action.
I of course have found myself in

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this, in this loop of, Oh my
gosh, there's a script for that,

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you know?
And so I, I still think those

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are good things, though.
I think when we're really having

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problems as we do in the
business world with management,

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as we do with children from time
to time or even with your spouse

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from time to time, there are
acute pinpoint solutions that

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can be offered.
What we are doing today is

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really making us all aware and
having a conversation about the

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business model, which if you
follow one of these people or

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heaven forbid, you're on their
e-mail list, you will

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consistently get problems and it
will only be talking about

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problems.
And so let's unpack what's

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really going on here.
So from a psychology

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perspective, we are all
currently primed to notice

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rupture.
These parenting gurus have

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masterfully tapped into our
wiring, and there are a few

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cognitive biases that they're
really leaning on.

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The 1st is negativity bias.
So from a primal perspective, we

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are attuned to paying way more
attention to a negative Q than a

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+1, right?
If I see some berries over

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there, but I hear a lion
rustling in the bushes, it makes

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more sense for me to run away
and forget the berries, right?

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So picking up on that, it's
posts like after a meltdown,

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your toddler needs to hear this
from you.

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How to put an end to your
toddler's hitting by our course.

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1 tip to prevent sibling rivalry
by our course, right.

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So these things are really
focusing the day-to-day of

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family life on tantrums, potty
problems, things that don't

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yield joy.
And then the second is

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availability heuristic.
So this is the idea that for

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humans, the easier something is
to recall, the more important we

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feel it is, even if it's not
truly representative of what is

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important in life.
So this constant exposure to

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problems make those moments in
our family life feel more

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frequent than they actually are.
As a business model, these

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influencers inundate us with
subjects hoping that at least

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one of them will trigger
something in US.

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So I'm on Doctor Becky's e-mail
list.

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Thankfully it goes to spam, but
here are some subjects just from

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the past couple weeks alone.
Does everything with your kid

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feel like a battle?
Save your spot for my live

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Defiance workshop car rides.
Don't have to feel this hard.

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Access my car ride Q&A.
Do you ever feel like a ticking

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time bomb?
You need my mom.

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Rage workshop is.
She paying us.

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Like I'm telling people.
That's funny.

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Hey, if you have any of these
problems, please feel free to

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hop on the bandwagon.
No anyway, but this is like I

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am.
So I just want to be clear that

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part of the reason why we're
doing this episode is I have

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friends like me.
I know I'm not alone, but like I

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am so susceptible to this time.
I'm like, oh, that current was.

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Hard you are we all are right.
I mean for for dads, it's

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interesting.
It's not about kids, it's about

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there's.
I don't think there's as as big

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of a powerhouse brand, but it
it's all about rupture and

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repair with your spouse.
Interesting.

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It's.
The difference between men and

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women and how you can get women
on sides, but there's no family

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as a team that's being pushed to
to me and it sounds like to you.

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So I don't think it's really
out.

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There, it's all about playing
defense.

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It's all about being reactionary
to the things that come up.

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Here's a problem.
Let me give you a solution,

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right?
Because the well, you can get

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into the opposite of a
painkiller.

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Let me just finish.
So, so far we have negativity

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bias and availability heuristic.
And then the third thing, and

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this is the one that really gets
me, is this idea of identity

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signaling and social conformity.
So as gurus more and more play

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up this message that parenting
is hard in every post, every

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reel, that has become a badge of
authenticity.

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And to go against it, to say
what I'm saying, what we're

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saying today, can often come off
as bragging or being naive.

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And I promise you, I say this
with the utmost of humility.

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I don't think that parenting has
to be hard.

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I think that there are moments
that are difficult.

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But I want to believe that
everybody that is listening to

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this is already a great parent
and has so much knowledge inside

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of them, both inner knowing and
knowing from the things you

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00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,920
listen to that we can build from
a positive place.

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00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,480
We don't need to feel I'll
equipped or that this is too

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00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,920
hard or that we were lied to,
which is the consistent

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00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,480
messaging that we hear in order
to want to work on something.

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00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,440
We can come from a place of
confidence, a place of stability

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and a place of positivity to
support our family's growth.

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Wow, I love that.
It reminds me of building a

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business where once you get into
it, you better love it and you

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better learn to love it because
if you don't love it, why are

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you doing it?
And this goes back to we had

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kids for a reason.
We want to be parents.

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Why are we being pushed and
accepting the message that it is

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hard in a negative way?
It is hard in a positive way.

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00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,800
Like, I'm really happy that we
are down this journey.

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00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,960
And I'm sure that a lot of
people that are following the

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00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,360
scripts are saying the same
thing, but I don't actually

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00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,920
think they're internalizing that
because the message that comes

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00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,520
to them that says this is hard
is like, this is hard and it

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00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,840
sucks.
I see people's Instagram posts,

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00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,720
I see mom's Instagram posts
where they're like, you know, re

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00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,120
it's basically a retweet, a
repost of someone talking like

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00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,560
making fun of how hard it is
that like they're in hour two of

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00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,280
the day and already they've had
a, you know, a bottle thrown at

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00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,120
their head or this and then that
and then that.

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And it makes it sound miserable.
People, what are you doing?

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00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,960
Like if you're not actually
enjoying the journey, then

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00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,880
figure out a way to enjoy the
journey.

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And I say this with like so much
love in my heart that like you

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00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:17,120
chose this, we chose this.
So let's not let people's

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00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,720
business models of scare
tactics, fear mongering by this

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00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:28,080
or else play into what we think
of when we think of parenting.

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00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,600
Yeah, it's so true.
I mean, you had sent me a recent

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00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,440
Doctor Becky interview with
Doctor Sanjay Gupta and they're

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00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,880
having a lovely conversation.
But in the middle almost as a

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00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,760
throwaway.
If she goes this goes back to

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parenting is hard and we're
under equipped.

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00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:50,440
How has that become a throwaway
like a given They have made I I

279
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,520
don't want to you know, truly
Doctor Becky, but but really

280
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,160
this parenting business in
general has made it a throwaway

281
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,400
to say parenting is hard.
We are under equipped.

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00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,119
That is so insulting truly that
that is the message.

283
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,119
And I understand that that that
making people feel less than or

284
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,240
at a deficit sells memberships,
but I don't think that it's

285
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,240
appropriate.
No, I don't.

286
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,599
You know, I wonder if on the
other side of these memberships,

287
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,599
there's a positive message
that's encouraging people to

288
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,839
stay in them because I feel
like.

289
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,200
Well, the the message is heal
yourself, which is a whole

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00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,119
another thing and also very
valuable.

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00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,880
You know the there are workshops
out there like Team Your

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00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,880
triggers for parents and and
Doctor Becky is getting more and

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00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,640
more into.
That, but I have to believe that

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00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,800
she's saving the positive
message for the paid people and

295
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,480
so everyone that isn't paying is
just getting this negativity

296
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,520
pushed to.
To them, I mean, I was a member

297
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,520
for three months, I did a, you
know, three month membership and

298
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,000
I didn't see any of that.
So I don't know.

299
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,760
But here's the thing.
So all of these things,

300
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,920
negativity bias, availability,
heuristic identity signalling,

301
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,960
why does this work so well?
This works so well because the

302
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:08,080
consequences are existential.
It's like if you do not do this,

303
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,000
you will mess up your child
forever.

304
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,200
It is irreversible when we know
from research that that is not

305
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,960
true.
No.

306
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,600
It's and so.
It's gaslighting, really.

307
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,640
Well, I think it's convenient.
I don't.

308
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,760
I don't want to call it
personally.

309
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,800
I don't want to call it
gaslighting.

310
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,320
I think it's a convenient
narrative to make the stakes

311
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,920
really high where the undertone
is.

312
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,000
As long as you keep trying my
scripts, as long as you keep

313
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,000
trying this course, you must be
a good parent, right?

314
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,680
Right, right.
OK, let's debunk the business

315
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:55,040
model because the emotional side
of this I think is like, I get

316
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,360
very worked up.
Yes.

317
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,120
So that ends my psychology
primer.

318
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,160
I can tell that you're very
worked up and now can you please

319
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,680
get into the business model to
explain why this is so

320
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,920
effective?
Yeah, totally.

321
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,600
So there's a lot of businesses
out there like parenting that

322
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,200
leverage the anxiety to drive
interest and drive intent and

323
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,720
actually even Dr. awareness of
the problem, right?

324
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,080
So I would say parenting and
parenting advice is a subset of

325
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,960
the medical and pharma industry,
which at large has come up with

326
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,000
lots of diagnosis for things
that weren't necessarily a

327
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,240
problem.
Cholesterol, say what you will,

328
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:50,880
Ed things like this where the
the painkiller solves the acute

329
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,400
pain.
So it's no longer about, hey, we

330
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,960
think that there's a way to work
through this to the other side.

331
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,040
It's Oh no, this is for life.
And if you want to have a good

332
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,840
life, you must take this every
day.

333
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,880
Otherwise, you're going to be
back in that pain.

334
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,320
Right.
So it's like not diet and

335
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,960
exercise and a movement off the
statin.

336
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,320
It's no.
You will take a statin until the

337
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,720
day you die.
Exactly.

338
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,360
Interesting.
So the way that it works is step

339
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,720
one to surface the pain.
So you highlight these things.

340
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,840
In this case, it's ruptures,
tantrums and defiance to prime

341
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,760
and trigger the anxiety.
Step 2 is amplify the urgency.

342
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,880
So if you frame, if you're
framing these as like what you

343
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,560
can get around to this at some
point, like, you know, we'll,

344
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,000
we'll have, we'll have a summer
class.

345
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,000
You know, it doesn't necessarily
create the anxiety trigger, but

346
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,960
by framing it as a high stakes
moment where you're going to

347
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,920
screw up your child for, you
know, creating decision fatigue

348
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,160
and guilt and fear of doing it
all wrong, that's where the

349
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,560
urgency gets amplified.
Then Step 3 is of course, oh, we

350
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,080
have a solution for you.
Offer scripts or courses or

351
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,040
memberships for instant relief.
The toughest part of parenting

352
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,800
now 25% easier.
Real post from Big Little

353
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,240
Feelings August 28th.
That's a good one.

354
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,240
And you know, honestly, there's
this illusion of control that

355
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,560
that goes into it.
I think that's where they get

356
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,320
me, yeah.
Which is like, oh, you, you

357
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:27,440
didn't, you didn't know that you
can fix this.

358
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,640
What are you doing?
Like this is the script.

359
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,080
Obviously you're a, you're,
you're not a bad child.

360
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,360
You're a good boy having a hard
time.

361
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,440
Yeah, but the worst part of that
is, and this has happened to me

362
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,800
a few times in my life with the
illusion of control.

363
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,160
Or it's like you do that and you
finally remember to use the

364
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,520
script and say the thing and it
doesn't work.

365
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,680
I mean, yesterday I had listened
to something that Doctor Becky

366
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,720
in researching this, it was like
that.

367
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,080
Of course, I went into the
vortex of it.

368
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,240
It was like my daughter slammed
the door.

369
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,720
I came and sat down on her bed.
And at first she said nothing,

370
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,560
but then 3 minutes later, she
said Billy Bob was mean to me,

371
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,120
you know, and it all came out.
And so yesterday when Hunter was

372
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,680
refusing to go up to take her
bath, I was like, OK, I'm going

373
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,920
to do it.
So I just lied down next to her.

374
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,560
10 minutes later, she hadn't
said a word.

375
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,600
And I'm like, when is the thing
going to come out?

376
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,080
Because Doctor Becky promised me
that like within 5 minutes she

377
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,080
was going to say the thing that
like, all I had to do was just

378
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,920
cozy up next to her and be like,
I'm here.

379
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,840
And it didn't work.
And I was like, well, crap.

380
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,560
Yeah.
But no, there's this, really.

381
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,640
Then there's this feeling, this
cycle that I think you're

382
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,840
talking about that gets
perpetuated.

383
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,600
It's like wait I did it wrong.
Correct.

384
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,080
Which is it's always convenient
because those that publish

385
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,080
newsletters and publish videos
and courses can create new

386
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,400
content for those that felt like
they were left behind.

387
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,560
So Doctor Becky publishes a new
course that says, oh, my scripts

388
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,400
didn't work.
You must have a defiant child.

389
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,480
There's always another.
Problem.

390
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,680
So here's a new definition.
It's interesting the the RIA

391
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,800
world and like investment
newsletters do this extremely

392
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,480
well too, where they're like,
oh, you didn't see that interest

393
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,400
rate, you know, trend the way
that we did.

394
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,040
Next time you'll be aware
because you're going to pay this

395
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,120
for this course and or you're
going to subscribe for these

396
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,240
trades and we're going to send
you the trades in real time.

397
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,960
And then the trades didn't work
and they're like, Oh well, this

398
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,880
was one of those cycles where
you didn't have the thing you

399
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,640
don't know about these cycles.
Let me introduce you to them for

400
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,240
only 499.
And let me sell you some life

401
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,480
insurance while I'm at.
It exactly interesting the I

402
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,120
mean, we're all I I like to
think of anxiety business models

403
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,880
as if if we are perfect
specimens, we could get away

404
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,600
from like all of them.
We wouldn't buy insurance, we

405
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,120
wouldn't have doctors we
wouldn't like because all of

406
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:02,840
these things create a lot of
problems, even though they they

407
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,920
tend to solve some like a little
bit of Peace of Mind for not

408
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,240
having insurance.
Think about if you had on, you

409
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,840
know, Charlie Munger and Warren
Buffett say they don't carry any

410
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,120
insurance, obviously because
they have all the money that

411
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,040
they need to for any.
What's the business that's made

412
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,200
them the most money in the world
of anything?

413
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,960
GEICO, right.
So it's like the the businesses

414
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:30,640
of anxiety can be such great
businesses, but they don't work

415
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,760
for the consumer.
They only work for the people

416
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,880
selling at the end of the day.
Yeah.

417
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,240
No, that's a great point.
And I think that the more that I

418
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,800
try a script and it doesn't work
out, the more I do feel under

419
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,640
equipped and this field feeds
straight into the messaging.

420
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,680
The current quote Revolution
that Doctor Becky is proposing

421
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,480
that and I'm going to read it to
you from her Revolution e-mail.

422
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,840
It's not your fault that
parenting is hard.

423
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,280
It's not your fault if you feel
overwhelmed.

424
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,600
You weren't set up for success,
no parent was.

425
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,600
Let me read that line again.
You weren't set up for success,

426
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,720
no parent was.
It's unfair, it's impossible,

427
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,400
and it's time for these things
to change.

428
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,760
If you're listening right now,
please go back 15 seconds and

429
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,440
listen to me say that again.
Are those the messages that you

430
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,960
really want to believe about
your parenting life?

431
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,600
No parent was set up for
success.

432
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,920
It's unfair.
It's it's impossible.

433
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,960
Until the advent of Instagram,
everyone was doing it wrong.

434
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,880
No wonder why 88% of parents in
this generation think that it is

435
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,640
harder than the previous
generation.

436
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,920
This is nonsense.
It's in unfair, it's impossible.

437
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,600
It's not a message that I want
to feed into, no.

438
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,480
We it has to stop the the.
It's dangerous.

439
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,880
This flywheel really needs to
stop there.

440
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,760
There is a better way, and I'm
not saying that to sound like a

441
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,840
talking head.
We haven't figured out for the

442
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,040
most important thing if we'll
ever sell anything or if we'll

443
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,680
ever even try to make money with
this.

444
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,840
No, but the one thing I can
promise you is I'm never going

445
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,760
to tell you that you need what
we're selling.

446
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,880
If you don't want what we're
selling, that's fine.

447
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,280
If you don't want what these
first 27 episodes have been

448
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,200
about, that is fine with me.
You are a great parent already,

449
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,240
that I know for sure.
And So what I really take issue

450
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,600
with here is that these gurus,
their marketing, their business

451
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,680
model implies that their
audience is at a deficit, that

452
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,000
their audience needs something
to be whole, that they, the,

453
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,480
this is the biggest lie that has
ever been told to parents is

454
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,880
that they are equipped that they
should know how to be a success.

455
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,360
That is not true.
Absolutely.

456
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:56,280
We all have problems sometimes.
Goodness knows.

457
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,040
I've had dealt with my fair
share of big T, little T trauma

458
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,320
and the little things that come
up when it comes to being a

459
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,240
parent.
Still dealing with it always

460
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,080
will.
But that doesn't mean that I'm

461
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,200
unequipped.
No, the message that's going out

462
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,840
is.
Problems aren't normal, you're

463
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,760
doing it wrong.
Well, it's actually, I don't

464
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,360
know if it's that's true,
because I feel like they've

465
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:26,320
normalized problems, which in
theory would be a good thing,

466
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
except that everyone's
commiserating over them.

467
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,520
So it's this really interesting
juxtaposition of problems are

468
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,200
everywhere, but no one knows how
to fix them.

469
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,240
The only person that knows how
to fix them is Doctor.

470
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,400
That goes back to my point where
it's problem shouldn't be

471
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,440
normal, it's because you're
doing it wrong.

472
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,720
Take my course and we'll.
Teach you everyone.

473
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,920
Is doing it wrong.
That's what that's what's crazy.

474
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,240
And these are people that you
haven't invited into your home

475
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,800
or your inbox.
Or your phone, well, now you

476
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,960
invite once because you're
having a problem.

477
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,400
That's what happened to me,
right?

478
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,800
Like we were having challenges
with Hunter.

479
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,560
And so I found a lot of use in
some of the Doctor Becky things

480
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,280
to varying degrees of success.
But I would say by and large, at

481
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,680
least I felt at the time.
Now I'm kind of questioning it,

482
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,640
honestly, but I bet it was
overall positive.

483
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,400
But thank goodness I started
putting those things into spam

484
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,160
and not listening to the
Instagram until researching this

485
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,920
podcast because you I don't need
that all the time.

486
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,800
But her business model needs me
to need that all the time.

487
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,080
And herein lies the problem.
This is how we end up with such

488
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,120
a consistent message that
parenting is hard, that now 88%

489
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,600
of Americans think that
parenting is harder than ever.

490
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,120
Yeah.
So what do we do about this?

491
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,680
What can we do?
We actually we take some advice

492
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,400
from Doctor Becky and start
small.

493
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,600
OK.
Start small in psychology, we

494
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,440
would call this a nudge, right?
A small low stakes movement that

495
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,760
hopefully can have outsized
impact.

496
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,360
And so Greg and I were thinking,
what is something that we can

497
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,920
we've been pretty critical on
this podcast.

498
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,880
So what is what is something
that we can do to start a little

499
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,680
revolution of our own, one that
says that we are OK, we are

500
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,280
equipped and sure, sometimes we
have problems, but we can build

501
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,360
from a place of positivity, a
place of worthiness as parents

502
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,480
on our family life.
So Greg had the great idea of of

503
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,080
so I said, why don't we
encourage people, encourage our

504
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:36,160
listeners to rather than or at
least in defiance of the

505
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,440
constant tantrums, door
slamming, etcetera, the posts

506
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,080
and things that we are getting
emails.

507
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,160
Why don't we each take a moment
once a day to note positive

508
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,400
family culture, something small
like a laugh or A1 sibling

509
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,960
getting something for another,
and any moment that brings joy

510
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,440
to see that family life is
richer than the anxiety economy

511
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,920
suggests.
And you had the great idea of

512
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,840
actually coming up with some
concrete ones.

513
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,800
So we've built a list of 100
ideas of daily culture moments.

514
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,720
And so really just ordinary
sustaining practices that can

515
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,320
support positive family culture.
And so this is our answer to the

516
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,960
viral Tantrums course or the
Doctor Becky Revolution, which

517
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,880
is really to know that we
already have so much of what we

518
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,280
need and we can build from
there.

519
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,120
We really do, and just things
like acting out a silly skit or

520
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,280
playing a game after dinner.
Or maybe things that have

521
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,280
already just happened to happen,
like I The reason why I want to

522
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,600
share this Daily Culture Moments
list is because I can almost

523
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,480
guarantee that half dozen of
them at least have happened in

524
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,760
your home already.
Yeah, that's a, that's a good

525
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,080
point.
It's not that you have to create

526
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,440
it.
You don't have to even do it,

527
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,240
you just have to notice them.
It's like writing a gratitude

528
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,800
list.
You know, they say like, are you

529
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,240
having a bad day?
Write down 5 gratitudes and

530
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,760
immediately you'll feel better.
It's the same idea as we're

531
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,240
being constantly pushed these
things that really prompt our,

532
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,440
like, negative focus just to
flip the script.

533
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:12,920
Yeah.
I like that.

534
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,760
OK, so thanks so much for
listening to our soapbox.

535
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,720
I hope that you feel, you know,
maybe you've already had a lot

536
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,120
of feelings about some of some
of these things already and

537
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,400
maybe we've helped you found
find the words you're not alone.

538
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,000
And it I think the number one
thing I want us to take away

539
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,040
today is just that we get to
choose.

540
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600
We get to choose where to put
our attention and notice that

541
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,640
there's not anything inherently
bad about the business models

542
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:51,520
that we have dissected today.
It's that we deserve to all be

543
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,360
aware and knowledgeable
consumers about what we're

544
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,200
actually feeding into.
And if it makes us feel a

545
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:03,800
certain way, then we can humbly
kindly unsubscribe, unfollow,

546
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,480
and know that it will always be
there if there's really an acute

547
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,720
pain point that needs support.
Amen to that.

548
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,600
This is an epidemic.
This reminds me of like opioids

549
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,920
are probably more like Adderall
actually than opioids.

550
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,600
I think it's more like Adderall
where everyone thinks that they

551
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,400
need it and then once your
friend is on it, you like, oh,

552
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,400
maybe I have ADD or ADHD.
And next thing we know,

553
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,760
everyone's taking amphetamines
for no good reason.

554
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,440
And the way to stop the cycle is
to realize that life is good

555
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,400
without this.
Life is really good without

556
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,840
this.
Life is hard, but it is good,

557
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,320
and I think the more that we
notice in ourselves that we're

558
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,080
capable of what life throws at
us, the less we will need the

559
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,080
scripts and the more we'll be
parenting from a place of

560
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,360
authenticity.
And our children who are energy

561
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,160
mirrors will pick up on that.
Cool.

562
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,200
Well, thank you, Goosy.
Thank you for going through all

563
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,320
of this today.
I think I really needed this

564
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,960
just to really, as we said, make
the implicit, explicit about

565
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,880
what I am allowing into my
perspective and the things that

566
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,920
I am unknowingly reading because
they're being pushed to me.

567
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:30,920
And that I I truly believe in my
heart of hearts that parenting

568
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,160
can be hard sometimes.
Parenting is hard sometimes.

569
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,520
But that we are not under
equipped and that we are so much

570
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,640
stronger than we realize.
And that being on the receiving

571
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,320
end of so many messages that
tell us that this is too hard,

572
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,320
that there's no way to success
without some magic solution is

573
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,440
soul depleting.
And so I'm grateful to be

574
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,160
reclaiming my agency around.
Absolutely.

575
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,000
There are going to be moments
where I need support, but that

576
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,560
by and large I can trust my
inner knowing and know that I am

577
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,920
a great parent and I can build
from here.

578
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,600
I love hearing that I have an
unwavering belief in what we're

579
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,400
doing here together, and seeing
that the business model that is

580
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,080
most congruent with today's
parenting advice is not

581
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,239
something that serves us makes
me happy in a way, because I

582
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,639
know that we have other better
things to offer than fear and

583
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,920
anxiety.
I don't know if showing up with

584
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,120
family culture will ever make us
money, but I do know that it's

585
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,520
bringing a lot of joy to our
lives.

586
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,520
Yeah, absolutely.
Hey, you never know.

587
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,560
I mean, there are plenty of
vitamins out there that become

588
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,040
really popular, right?
Like Starbucks is one that comes

589
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,960
to mind, or Headspace meditation
app, right?

590
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:03,280
These are things that are
aligned with people's values and

591
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,000
rituals and intentions about who
they want to be, not because

592
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,720
they are less than in any way,
but because they want the most

593
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,320
out of this life.
And we get to.

594
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:22,880
Yep, and we get to and for $99 a
year I will sell you a 60 minute

595
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,080
piece of silence for you to
listen to and listen to yourself

596
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,800
because you've got this.
Oh, man.

597
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,560
All right.
Well, I I love you for

598
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,640
productizing everything.
Love you goosy.

599
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,960
Love you goosy.
Hey guys, if you're still here,

600
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,680
you're definitely our kind of
person.

601
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,680
Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important

602
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,200
Thing.
If this episode resonated with

603
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,680
you, we'd love for you to follow
us wherever you get your

604
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,840
podcasts and share it with
someone else.

605
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,560
Building family culture on
purpose.