TMIT 15: Accountability & Respect

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Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.

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I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld, and

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together we're exploring how
ambitious busy families can

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build culture at home.
Because after all, family is the

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most important thing.
Hey, happy Monday.

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Happy Monday Goosy, how are you
doing?

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Pretty well, pretty well.
I'm excited about this video

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format because you actually come
into our home.

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Yeah, like the least decorated
part of our.

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Home but.
Got to start somewhere.

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We're we're still living in
somewhat COVID times, I think,

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so we need reason to do a little
sprucing up around here as it

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pertains to this office and
maybe some new clothes.

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That's right.
Yeah.

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Always a work in progress, yeah?
OK.

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So this is the sixth episode in
our series on the Wholehearted

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Parenting Manifesto.
The hits just keep on coming.

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That's right.
This one is on accountability

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and respect, among other things.
From the Wholehearted Parenting

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Manifesto, Brene says you will
learn accountability and respect

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by watching me make mistakes and
make amends, and by watching how

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I ask for what I need and talk
about how I feel.

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So there's a lot to unpack in
this one sentence, right?

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I think we should probably start
from the top.

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Accountability and respect.
Respect is a really loaded word

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for me, I have to tell you.
Say more.

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It feels very boomer.
I've heard my parents talk about

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respect from their
grandchildren.

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I certainly grew up with this
idea of respecting your elders

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and respecting your parents, and
it usually meant obedience more

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than anything else.
I honestly think about a

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Catholic school nun with a ruler
when I think about respect.

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So.
But then on the other hand, one

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of the pillars in our children's
very gentle, whimsical preschool

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is respect for the individual.
So I suppose it can play both

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ways.
I personally, however, like it's

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a little bit of a trigger word
for me.

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Accountability on the other
hand, is a word I love.

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I love the idea of I guess I
think about, I think about my

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career and I think about getting
things done in deliverables and

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shared accountability and
individual accountability on

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teams.
And it's something that I am

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eager to bring more visible
accountability into our home.

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So what shows up for you in
combining these two?

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Does it mean that you don't want
to talk about respect in the

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traditional sense?
Or do you think that maybe it's

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just not properly defined and we
should redefine it?

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Yeah, well, so I dug into some
of the research on this, and

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what Brené Brown says is that
accountability breeds trust and

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trust breeds respect.
So when I think about the kind

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of more positive connotation of
respect, as I mentioned from the

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kids preschool, respect for the
individual, it's a way of

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saying, I see you and I'm going
to make space for you.

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And in this particular context,
it's about holding myself

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accountable for the way that my
actions may have had an impact

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on you, positive or negative,
even if my intentions were

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different.
Yeah, You brought that up

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recently as as being the thing
that you want our kids to really

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understand about repair is that
no matter what they meant, that

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they kind of do have a a place
in a role in how someone else

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feels and what they take away
from that experience and

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interaction.
That's right.

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I I think I've been trying to
talk to the kids about how

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regardless of your intention,
the impact is the same and you

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have to be responsible for the
impact.

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So do you think that it's
developmentally appropriate for

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a three-year old A5 year old to
be able to actually hold on to

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that and and understand that?
Yeah, it's a great question.

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I think that it's aspirational,
but I do believe that we can

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give them the language and help
them create a framework so that

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they can grow into it.
So are we trying to model

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anything in particular here?
Like what's?

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What's the objective?
Yeah.

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So I would say that the biggest
objective for me, the thing that

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I wish that I knew earlier in
life is this idea that

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regardless of what my intention
was, I need to be accountable

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for the impact that my behavior
has on you.

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So I think for many years I
thought, well, I didn't mean it

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like that or that's just how my
brain works, or I would never,

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this is a big one.
Like I would never feel this way

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in that circumstance.
So why would you, right?

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And I think a lot of the
learning that I've had over the

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past really since becoming a
Brené Brown fan, is that my part

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is to get curious and to witness
the way that something I did or

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even something, even if I'm just
listening to a friend in the way

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that they have experienced
something, that my part is

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really to hear them not put my
own tape over it.

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Oh, in, in this circumstance, I
would have felt X.

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So let me get, let me get more
specific because it seems pretty

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nebulous right now.
So I think a great example for

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me that's come up over the past
decade repeatedly is pregnancy

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and how some friends have had
trouble getting pregnant, some

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friends have had trouble with
the newborn phase or with

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breastfeeding or with the birth
itself.

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And rarely do those coincide
with my struggles.

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And I think that, birth stories
aside, this comes up all the

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time when we hurt each other
and.

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So let's play that back.
So a friend says to you, but the

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baby's healthy, right?
And you say, yeah, but that's

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not the point.
How do you that feels bad?

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It really does, right?
That just feels really bad.

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That feels like I'm not being
seen, someone is not hearing me

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because it's a both ends
situation.

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While that is true, my
experience was one of deep

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trauma and pain.
And so I guess that experience

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has really helped me with much
smaller things, such as when

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Jade is deeply pained by one of
us raising our voices, right?

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You, me, Hunter, Maverick, we're
way less sensitive to raised

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voices than Jade is.
But I'm not going to look at her

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and say toughen up or this is no
big deal, right?

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Is it helpful to you to go to a
place where you were

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misunderstood or you felt like
there wasn't empathy in terms of

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respecting your situation?
Does that help you kind of show

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up differently for Jade or for
Hunter or Maverick or for me?

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I mean, that's what Brené Brown
would say you're supposed to do,

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I believe.
I don't know that I do that

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directly, but I do think that
I've had enough practice now

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that I can recognize like, oh,
I'm looking at this through my

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lens.
I need to start accepting that I

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don't know what the other person
is feeling.

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And that if they tell me, if
Jade tells me that raising my

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voice deeply disrupts her, which
she can tell me with her words

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or her actions, I need to
believe that.

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Like for my, for my own heart.
Because I want.

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Because I know that I have
idiosyncrasies.

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Also that I really want the rest
of you to believe when they show

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up.
Do you think that's the hardest

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part about what do we call this
accountability to taking, taking

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accountability for actions?
I think it's respect.

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Respect.
I think it's that is really the

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respect for the individual.
So it's no longer a boomer term.

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It becomes respect, meaning I
respect your position.

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I respect.
Your.

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Experience and what I'm here for
you and I'm I see you and I see

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you.
And while this particular

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circumstance may not have
brought up fill in the blank

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deep fear, I can I can empathize
with you because I have had

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other experiences that look
different but that bring up that

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same emotion within me.
And I can use that to relate to

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you.
Right.

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And we all have those.
So it shouldn't be too hard to

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reflect on a situation where I
have felt misunderstood and

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bring that back full circle.
To understand what it feels like

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to be misunderstood and know,
hey, this might not be my

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experience, but it certainly
sounds like it's yours.

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M Scott Peck in his book The
Road Less Traveled talks about

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this term that he uses
bracketing, which is essentially

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suspending your own existing
beliefs and making space for

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what the other person needs to
fill that in with.

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So putting aside oneself to make
room for new information, and I

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think that that is an extremely
powerful concept to teach our

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children as early as possible.
I completely agree, we've had

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some luck, for lack of a better
term with this already showing

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up in some of our kids schools.
Is that where you where you want

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to go?
Absolutely.

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Let's talk about that.
So Hunter and now Jade go to a

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local school here.
It's called Coca Plum Nature

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School, where the founders have
created a framework for repair

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called Heart repair, and so it's
based off of the principles of

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Nonviolent Communication and
conscious discipline. 2 other

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wonderful frameworks that have
terrible names.

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Terrible names.
It's a consistent theme, but

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essentially it's a way for kids
to make up without having to say

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I'm sorry.
So I think one of the first and

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one of the most important
aspects of this is that both

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people have to consent to heart
repair.

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And often times that takes, I
won't say at their school, I can

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tell you in our home, sometimes
that's immediate, but more often

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it takes hours or days.
Attachment styles are a whole

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different topic.
But I would just say that like

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we have Hunter who leans towards
an anxious attachment style and

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wants to repair immediately,
whereas Jade, you could call her

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someone avoidance and likes to
take more time, just by way of

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example.
So sometimes heart repair,

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typically heart repair will be
anywhere from 10 minutes to a

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couple of hours after said
incident, depending on what

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happens.
But respecting each individual

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and having them consent to come
to the table, so to speak, to

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even begin the heart repair
process is a very important

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first step.
Yeah.

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And I've noticed it's a little
anxiety inducing, but once

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you've done it once or twice,
that anxiety kind of goes away

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and you're more prepared and
excited to show up and get it

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not over with, but actually get
into it.

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As opposed to what I noticed
with most interpersonal

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conflicts, even as adults, is I
we tend to take space from a

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person, almost too much space,
and let it fester and build.

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As opposed to going to that
person and saying, hey, this was

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my experience and it didn't feel
so.

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Good, right.
So we can get into how it how it

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happens.
But I do just want to say that I

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think that this really is our
job as parents is to give them

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the framework, give them the
language in a developmentally

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appropriate, accessible manner
and then they can grow into it

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over time.
Right now the heart repair is

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extremely one O 1, but I do
think that now they know they

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have a process for making up and
making amends and holding one

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another accountable.
That really is a skill that they

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can build upon as they grow.
Yeah, and what?

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What is the format?
Sure.

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That they go through.
So it's the first person will

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say I feel and then insert some
emotion.

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Typically for our children
that's sad, mad, scared but it

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obviously can be more advanced
as you get older.

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I have done this with adults
before and had had very good

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results for my own self.
Peace in my heart.

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So I feel when you so I feel mad
when you steal my monster truck

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I need.
And then they typically say you

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2 not do that.
Can you please stop?

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That's usually how it goes
right?

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But then the most important part
that for me is when the other

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person reflects back what they
heard.

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And so it's you feel sad when I
take your monster truck, you

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need me to stop.
And then it are you willing to

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stop?
Yes, I am willing to stop,

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right?
And then sometimes the other

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person will say, well, I feel
really mad when you RIP my book.

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Can you please stop, right?
And so I'm using a little bit of

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a sassy tone, but sometimes that
happens too.

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But it's this understanding that
often times the incident that is

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the reason to come to the heart
repair carpet, if you will, is

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preceded by many other actions,
right?

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It's built upon.
And so there's not blame, but

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there's accountability on all
sides.

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And so the other person would
repeat back, you feel mad when I

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rip your book, I will stop,
right, Right.

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Relatively simple, but impactful
nonetheless.

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It's been remarkable just
hearing about these interactions

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00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,280
happening without our
supervision at school.

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Even at Jade's preschool, she
took it upon herself, didn't she

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00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:36,840
to?
She did.

232
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,520
Yeah.
I'm smiling big because I I

233
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,920
forgot about that.
It's such a great thing.

234
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,240
So about six months ago, Jade
came to me after school one day

235
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,120
and said, mom, my friend keeps
yelling at me, stop talking.

236
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,080
When the little girl, the other
little girl had been talking for

237
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,440
a while.
And Jade tried to say one thing

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00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,760
and but the point is, Jade said,
mommy, it really hurts my

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00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,680
feelings and she says it a lot.
And so we talked about what can

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00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,560
you say to her?
Let's just call her Sarah.

241
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:05,640
So Jade and I discussed how she
would go up to Sarah the next

242
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,440
day when things are peaceful,
right?

243
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,240
And just say, you know, Sarah,
when you say stop talking, I

244
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,040
feel sad.
Can you please stop?

245
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,080
And I wasn't there, so I don't
know for sure what happened.

246
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,760
But I do know that she came home
the next day and said, mom,

247
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,640
Sarah heard me.
And she's not going to do it

248
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,480
anymore.
And we haven't heard about it

249
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,600
again.
And she was 4 at the time.

250
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,040
Yeah, it was awesome.
Just remarkable.

251
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,200
But she's got the scaffolding
and she's seen it at home, she's

252
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,600
seen it at school, supervised.
She knew what to do.

253
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,440
And that's, that's really a
special framework that our kids

254
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,440
have and we want to share and
make sure that it's well known.

255
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,720
Yeah, and I mean, we're just
getting started, right?

256
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,080
I don't want to make it sound
like we have this unlocked

257
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,840
because we don't and there are
plenty of times that there an is

258
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,640
an incident in our home and we
don't do heart repair, but when

259
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,280
we do it has very strong
results.

260
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,400
Yeah, I think that the you've
mentioned this, the the

261
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,200
parroting back, the echoing back
what what you heard about the

262
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,040
other person's experience is the
most important thing from heart

263
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,120
repair.
And it sometimes gets lost in

264
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,840
the conversation just because I
don't think that kids and

265
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,480
adults, it's the hardest part.
It's the hardest part really

266
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,160
know how to in the moment make
that feel authentic and show up

267
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,640
as authentic and but.
I think it's one of those things

268
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,120
where you fake it to your make
it right.

269
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,880
Like I was listening to a Doctor
Becky episode the other day and

270
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,520
she was like, we as parents make
way too much of an eye roll.

271
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,360
I actually think that an eye
roll is a positive thing because

272
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,240
it's a sign of compromise.
These are my words, right where

273
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,160
it's a sign of compromise, where
the child is trying to say, I

274
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,240
think you're saying something
valuable right now, but I need

275
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,200
to protect my independence.
And so am I rolling as a way to

276
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,680
make space from that.
And I think you'll get a lot of

277
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,400
eye rolling.
At least I've witnessed a lot of

278
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,240
eye rolling and heart repair.
But they're still standing there

279
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,600
and they're still, the kids are
still showing up.

280
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,280
And so it's this balance
between, I mean, you can't just

281
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,760
necessarily jump into full
accountability.

282
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,000
I think this experience of
learning to hold another

283
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,480
person's experience in your hand
as opposed to pushing it

284
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,000
completely away or taking it in
and taking it on, is a

285
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,160
deliberate practice that takes
time.

286
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,080
I know I'm still working on it.
Especially with our children, I

287
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,240
have a tendency to do one or the
other.

288
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,200
And so of course, in heart
repair, it is often times

289
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,040
challenging to get a child to
repeat back what the other has

290
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,320
said and to really accept the
impact that their behavior has

291
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,720
had.
But that's what practice is for.

292
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,320
It's not always going to go
perfectly.

293
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,680
Yeah, exactly, which is why just
having this as a tool in the

294
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,040
toolkit, one, and then two,
maybe having something

295
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,920
documented about that heart
repair.

296
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,680
So one experiment that comes up
for me here is having a family

297
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,040
heart repair journal where we
just document what the other

298
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,960
person's experience was.
It's not about what you did to

299
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,560
make them feel that way, It's
just more that you understand

300
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,240
where they're coming from when
that experience might not be

301
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,000
what you felt.
It is what what they felt.

302
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,000
I love that.
I think that's such a great idea

303
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000
to have some type of ongoing
journal.

304
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,160
It's just talking about what
really occurrences in our life,

305
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,560
conflicts and resolutions,
making amends in our home.

306
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,800
Yeah, I just finished reading
Esther with Jackie's How to

307
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,200
raise Successful People and she
always had her daughter.

308
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,840
She said write a apology letter
to them.

309
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,280
Now I feel like that's respect
capital R old school.

310
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,960
Maybe maybe trending towards
that side.

311
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,640
She also threw out that it was a
practice of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

312
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,720
So I was like, you know, take
what you want from that.

313
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,560
But I do think that to make this
a little more modern, a family

314
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,000
accountability journal where we
write in what the other person's

315
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,680
experience was and what we
heard, I think would be a really

316
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,800
helpful tool.
So who's doing the writing then?

317
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,680
I I would like to suggest that
they do it together, but it's

318
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,839
not like the perpetrator has to
write what they heard from the

319
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:15,880
victim or something.
That's kind of like a guest book

320
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,760
at a inn or something.
You, you sign it together, you

321
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,040
write, you know, we had this
little experience, this little

322
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,960
thing happened.
This is what we resolved.

323
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:24,880
Sure.
And we can write it for them, of

324
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,400
course, but they want to.
We want them to be there and and

325
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,960
document it with us.
I love that.

326
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,800
I think that's an excellent
experiment to run.

327
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,240
Let's get out of composition
book after this.

328
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,280
Sounds.
Good.

329
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,000
All right, So to recap, the most
important thing about

330
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,840
accountability and respect is
that when we expect kids to own

331
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,360
their actions and give them the
tools to repair, we teach them

332
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,920
how to be powerful and stay
connected.

333
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,880
So it's one of the frameworks
that I love.

334
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,400
It's like a meta framework.
So if we've heart repair as a

335
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,640
framework, one of the frameworks
that I think about a lot is that

336
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:05,120
we have to 1st give kids the
language, then we can be

337
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,080
supportive in their process.
And then as they get even older,

338
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,960
we really have to be invited in.
So this is the time, I think

339
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:19,080
that this is really the most
crucial time to support our

340
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,160
children with frameworks for
interacting, frameworks for

341
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,600
courage, like we talked about
before, deliberate practice and

342
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,680
seeing mistakes as learning
opportunities.

343
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,160
And then here framework for
accountability.

344
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,440
So owning our own mistakes, but
using heart repair as a

345
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,520
framework, even if you don't
come up to a friend and say,

346
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,440
Hey, it's time for heart repair,
right?

347
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,920
But actually saying, you know,
like Jay did at school, I felt

348
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,920
sad when you told me to stop
talking repeatedly.

349
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,360
Can you please not do that
again?

350
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,240
Right?
That's just a she didn't ask for

351
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:54,520
consent to have a whole, like a
whole heart repair tete, a tete,

352
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,480
if you will.
But it it really is a framework

353
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,120
that gave her the language to
address her own needs.

354
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,560
Right.
Cool, you have a lot of other

355
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,520
things that you want to say on
this topic.

356
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,960
Let's get into.
It well some things to explore.

357
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:17,360
OK, so to lean back the where I
noticed that this all broke down

358
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,400
because I had a lot of good
modeling of accountability and

359
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,880
respect as a younger child.
But then where this all broke

360
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,800
down for me, I think was around
peer orientation.

361
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,040
So when I was exposed to other
friends, families and and ways

362
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,800
of doing things that I thought
were especially funny, cool, you

363
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,160
know, laissez faire if you will,
Like letting the kids get into

364
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,200
fights or the siblings get into
fights and just kind of like

365
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,480
throat blows and not apologize
or, you know, take each other's

366
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,120
toys and not do anything about
it.

367
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,680
Just kind of a free for all if
you will.

368
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,520
So very different than.
The way very different from the

369
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,400
way that I grew up and I began
to model some of those things.

370
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,480
And it was really hard, I would
say to, to come back to the

371
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,680
family orientation for me,
especially because one thing

372
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,880
that happens when you change
your belief system, when I

373
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:19,600
change my belief system is that
I stopped caring about what we

374
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,840
do as a family and cared more
about how I got over, got

375
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,400
through the uncomfortable,
awkward.

376
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,640
Moments just to get to the next
thing that I want to do right.

377
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,640
About can you give us like an
age time frame for this?

378
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,360
This is probably 4th or 5th
grade and on.

379
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,600
OK.
So lying to get out of Trump,

380
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,000
right?
Even if it wasn't anything

381
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,440
necessarily malicious.
Just like, oh, what movie did

382
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,120
you watch at that sleepover?
Start small, start small,

383
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,800
because what I've heard you say
before is that you had a really

384
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,280
strong system for accountability
and repair in your home when you

385
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,440
were little.
And that probably relates to the

386
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,240
fact that your mom was an early
childhood educator and she knew

387
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,880
how to facilitate those types of
interactions.

388
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,120
But it sounds like at some point
that changed.

389
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,320
And it's probably one of the
reasons why we're starting this

390
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,880
podcast, honestly at this time
to kind of hold on to our kids

391
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,360
ahead of that because this peer
orientation, you haven't talked

392
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,280
about it too much on the
podcast, but it's something that

393
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,720
we've talked about a lot.
And I think that you would.

394
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,080
Is it fair to say you would have
preferred to have done it

395
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,560
differently or that you think of
it as part of the demise of your

396
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,560
relationship with your parents?
Or how do you think about it?

397
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,760
I don't think about it as the
demise of the relationship with

398
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,880
my parents, I think about it as
more of the lost years.

399
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,560
Lost years.
So it's a much better framework.

400
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,680
Yeah, there.
Was no demise of of a

401
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,640
relationship.
It was just more we grew up part

402
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,840
too early and then I didn't have
them for the years that I

403
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,160
thought that I would.
And so that is to me, something

404
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,600
that shows up when I think about
our family is this idea of

405
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320
holding on to our kids.
It's not just about keeping them

406
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,720
family oriented.
It's about not knowing the time

407
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,640
that we have together and making
sure that the time that we do

408
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,880
have together is spent
intentionally and with open

409
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:22,560
hearts and vulnerability, not
getting by or getting over in

410
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,880
order to get what we want
selfishly.

411
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,000
It feels like at a certain point
you kind of embarked on your own

412
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,840
journey, separate and apart from
your parents, which I think is a

413
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:39,200
necessary part of separating
during adolescence, but it felt

414
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,680
pretty significant for you.
Yeah, I mean, look, the small

415
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:50,840
town culture of kind of everyone
in the same schools, everyone

416
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,800
competing for the same things
drives a lot of behavior that I

417
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,320
would call helicopter parenting.
And helicopter parenting sets a

418
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,000
culture of the self.
It's a very selfish orientation

419
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,960
where I have to be the best at
this in order to get on this

420
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,960
team.
I have to be the best at this in

421
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,880
order to be top of my class so
that I can get into the best

422
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,520
schools.
I have to put this on my

423
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,560
transcript, whatever.
So I have to do this thing for

424
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,000
myself.
There's no we.

425
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,720
There's no service, there's no
belief even that the world is

426
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,440
any bigger than the town that I
grew up in.

427
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:30,600
We have a friend locally in
Florida and she went to private

428
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,760
school, but we grew up in the
same town and I notice the same

429
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,280
thing about her as with all my
other friends that I grew up

430
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,160
with who also went to private
schools as they were much more

431
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,800
family oriented.
The reason being, I think, is

432
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,040
school districts.
When you have school districts

433
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,480
around good schools, that's how
neighborhoods develop.

434
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,640
People buy houses in order to
move into those school

435
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,360
districts.
We have a friend from New York

436
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,760
who moved into a house that I
used to play in growing up for

437
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,400
the great school district that I
was in.

438
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,120
Right?
Like these are the reasons we

439
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,400
live in Florida where there are
no desirable school districts

440
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,880
necessarily.
It's all about charter schools

441
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,640
and private schools.
And so people just live wherever

442
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,920
they want to live.
So Hunter goes to school with a

443
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,040
bunch of kids that live all over
the place as far as, you know,

444
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,280
30-40 minutes away.
That, I think is a feature, not

445
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,480
a bug, because it allows us to
be much more family oriented on

446
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,920
the weekends as opposed to
running into the same people

447
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,960
that she goes to school with and
the same people that she does

448
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,520
activities with.
It's completely separate.

449
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,200
All right, we are all over the
place.

450
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,920
What does this have to do with
respect to accountability?

451
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,280
That's.
That I think we can hold on to

452
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,040
our kids a little bit better in
this way, but we still have to

453
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,440
be mindful of that creep.
Yeah.

454
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,400
So what I'm hearing you say is
that for you, respect and

455
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,440
accountability kind of went by
the wayside in your adolescence

456
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,000
because you shifted from a
family oriented person to more

457
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,680
of a peer oriented person,
right?

458
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,960
And we keep saying hold on to
your kids.

459
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,280
That is a book that neither of
us have read completely by

460
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,960
Gabouremate and Gordon Neufeld.
That sounds great.

461
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,040
No relation.
Yeah.

462
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,720
No, no, that we don't.
But that maybe is an episode for

463
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,920
another time.
Yeah.

464
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,240
But it sounds like it, I mean, a
lot shows up there for me.

465
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,520
And I think part of it, I think
you're right though, and the

466
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,920
reason I went off on a tangent
is a big reason that we're doing

467
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,360
a podcast around this particular
topic.

468
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,600
You know, one, because it's a
topic that we are very

469
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,560
passionate about.
But why are we passionate about

470
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,560
this?
We each have different reasons

471
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,000
for that.
And your reasons versus my

472
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,360
reasons, like are kind of wildly
different, but we both arrived

473
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,760
at the same conclusion even
before we had kids.

474
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,480
Yeah.
Can I say a little bit about my

475
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,400
reasons By all means, that's
coming up for me today because I

476
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,120
am not a peer oriented person,
which is something that we've

477
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,360
talked about.
However, I did grow up in a

478
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,600
suburb in a neighborhood with a
good school district and I did

479
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:54,040
have a relatively peer oriented
mom, and that community, by no

480
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,720
fault of any individual, almost
destroyed her and almost

481
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,760
destroyed our family.
Because of this, keeping up with

482
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,920
the Joneses, she had to work
when other moms didn't have to

483
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,680
work and we couldn't afford to
go on vacations that other

484
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,320
people could afford to.
And it created a lot of noise

485
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,760
that really wasn't focused on
our family values and what we

486
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,800
wanted.
And I think that a lot of the

487
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,160
reason why we have started this
podcast is because we are

488
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,600
finally at a point where our
children were out of this

489
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,360
blocking and tackling up five
times a night phase of life with

490
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:28,400
the kids where we actually do
have the opportunity to choose.

491
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:34,280
And I think that it would be
very easy to ingratiate

492
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,840
ourselves into a community where
we are trying to keep up with

493
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,480
other people and that we are
kind of staking our claim in a

494
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,040
different direction and saying
no, we are going to cultivate

495
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,840
our own family culture based on
what our values are, our

496
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,240
rhythms, the routines and
rituals that we want to have as

497
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,520
a family.
Then how does the outside world

498
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,400
fit in as opposed to a lot of
other noise from the outside

499
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,880
world penetrating our family and
us trying to find space in

500
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,600
between those things for the
individuals in our home?

501
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,560
Yep, and we believe we're not
alone.

502
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:22,480
Yeah, I don't think we are.
So we're here to say let's all

503
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,040
do it together, right?
Just because we're each starting

504
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,000
within our family doesn't mean
that we are alone, right, Right.

505
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,200
One of your coach likes to say
that you and I are on an island,

506
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,520
but that's OK.
I think as long as we know that

507
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,920
there are other islands out
there.

508
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,720
We we know for sure that there
are.

509
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,720
Yeah, an archipelago, if you
will, with my favorite words,

510
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,160
right?
That's right.

511
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,600
We're like Thailand.
It's like or New Jersey.

512
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,640
Or New Jersey, NJ is an
archipelago.

513
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,160
It is, I know.
Yeah, OK.

514
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,080
So yes, other people on their
own islands where we can all be

515
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,280
really happy and, you know,
create some bridges.

516
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,120
An island hop.
Yeah, exactly.

517
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,920
Cool, cool.
OK, Until next time.

518
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,960
Love you Goosey.
Hey guys, if you're still here,

519
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,680
you're definitely our kind of
person.

520
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,680
Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important

521
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,200
Thing.
If this episode resonated with

522
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,640
you, we'd love for you to follow
us wherever you get your

523
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,840
podcasts and share it with
someone else.

524
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,560
Building family culture on
purpose.