TMIT 14: Boundaries

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I love your, like, Weston.
Jesse.

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Look, Yeah.
Yeah.

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I haven't been watching enough
Bravo lately.

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I know.
Yeah.

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Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.

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I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld, and

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together we're exploring how
ambitious busy families can

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build culture at home.
Because after all, family is the

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most important thing.
Hey, Dee.

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Hi, Greg.
Welcome back to #5.

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Yeah, the 5th in our
Wholehearted Parenting series.

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The Most Important thing Episode
14 on boundaries.

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Boundaries.
It's like I should go Dun Dun

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Dun.
Really.

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Yeah, I love it.
OK, great.

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Yeah.
I'm like boundaries, yay.

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And I'm like boundaries.
Those have not gone well for me

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in the past.
I think I need a rewrite.

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Yeah.
So let's talk about boundaries.

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Yeah, let's.
From the Wholehearted Parenting

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Manifesto, Brene says.
We will set and respect

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boundaries.
We will honor hard work, hope

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and perseverance.
Rest and play will be family

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values as well as family
practices.

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I love all of that.
I think that it's worth framing

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our conversation in two parts,
the first being boundaries that

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we hold within our home, within
our nuclear family, and then

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boundaries that our family holds
or you and I individually hold

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with the outside world.
Right.

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Yeah, those are pretty
important, but very different

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mindsets, are they?
I think so within our within our

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home, I think we are in a lot
more control within our home,

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there's less volatility.
OK.

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Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I think within our home we have

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a common language, Yes, and
consistent practices around

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mutual respect and
accountability and the way we

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repair after rupture, for
example.

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That's right.
That may not be the way that

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folks outside of our home tend
to operate.

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Yeah.
And I think that within our

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home, that allows us to have
more flexibility.

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I don't love the word
flexibility because I don't

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think that setting boundaries
means you're inflexible.

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No, not at all.
I The evolution of boundaries is

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a unifying principle at home
because we can decide on those

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together, whereas other people's
boundaries and our boundaries

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may come into conflict and we
have to decide what we want to

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do at those conflict points.
Sure.

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I mean, we can decide as a
family, but I do think that the

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boundaries that we hold within
our home individually aren't

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necessarily decided together.
Like I'm thinking of the fact

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that we do not let the kids
sleep in our bed.

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That was a decision that you and
I made, really you made.

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And I seconded that the kids
would probably prefer not to be

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our boundary, right.
But we are steadfast in that and

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choose to instead spend time in
their, in their rooms overnight

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if, if there's something that
they need, because that is, you

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know, Brene talks a lot about
how boundaries are what enable

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me to have compassion and that
when I feel safe and that my

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space is protected, then I am
able to practice loving kindness

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towards another person.
And a great representation of

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that is to how much we both
honor and value sleep.

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And so for us, it is really
important that we keep our bed

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just to the two of us, not even
Winston is allowed on our bed

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right overnight.
But that's that's something that

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you and I decided based on our
values as opposed to and it and

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it's something that the kids
have have come to respect.

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But I don't think that if we had
a family meeting about whether

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or not the children should be
allowed to sleep in our bed, I

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think we would be outvoted on Co
sleeping.

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I bring this up as an example,
not because I think that no one

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should go sleep, but because I
wish I felt as resolved about

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other boundaries in my life as I
do about this one.

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Yes.
So this is an example of within

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our home where I think we are
doing well.

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Yeah.
Another one that I've been

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thinking about is our boundary
with one another around not

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having difficult conversations
when the sun is down.

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So we don't talk about work or
money or any other sticky topic

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unless the sun is up.
That's right.

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And I think that's been really
helpful because late night

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conversations about difficult
topics never seem to go well.

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No, and it's worked really well
for us.

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Yeah, well, it's, it's
recognizing that our minds, that

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our brains need, need rest and
that are not, they're not

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necessarily working as clearly
at night.

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Yeah.
So let's talk about where we

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aren't doing so well on
boundaries.

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OK, This morning's debacle comes
to mind, particularly in this

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triangle of you, me and Hunter.
Where?

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Yeah.
And so let me, if I can just

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frame for the audience.
So yesterday, without us

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knowing, while we were upstairs
working, Hunter and her little

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brother and sister, Jaden
Maverick, decided that they were

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going to decorate their kitchen
chairs with all sorts of

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stickers, sticky gem stickers
and regular stickers and really

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defiling what would be the right
word, really not making them

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look aesthetically pleasing, but
also just really junky.

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And it's something that they
knew that daddy wouldn't like.

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And this, let me just say that
this really gets to boundaries

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within the home and how we all
kind of ping pong off of each

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other.
Because when it comes to our

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shared space, you may hold
strong more strongly the value

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of keeping things very nice and
clean than I do or than the kids

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do.
And so we have to figure out how

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to make sure that you feel safe
and heard and seen.

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So.
This is 2 separate boundaries,

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and I think boundaries represent
values, right?

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And my value sure is keeping our
things looking nice.

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But I'm always open to a
conversation about how maybe I

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could be more flexible, in
particular with things that

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they're using that they want to
decorate.

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Sure, I'm open to those
conversations.

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However, the boundary that I'm
not OK with is represents the

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value about telling the truth
and about doing the right thing.

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And what Hunter did was she told
our nanny that we particularly

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that you said it was OK.
Which I did not.

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We did not have any conversation
about this.

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Exactly.
And so I felt violated from that

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perspective, one, and then two,
seeing the total mess that was

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made there, and then three, that
I knew that now Denny's going to

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have to clean up this mess that
shouldn't have been there in the

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1st place.
So we're paying for somebody to

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clean up the mess that shouldn't
have been there in the 1st place

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without a conversation about
could that have been decorated

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in a nice way?
Could we, you know, maybe, maybe

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painted the chair so that they
actually look respectable and

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not like all junked up?
Yeah, it's a lot, and there's a

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there's a lot going on there.
I think it put Danny in a weird

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position, Danny or Nanny in a
weird position.

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What comes up for me when you
talk about what happened as far

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as Hunter not asking and and not
telling the truth about that?

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I said it was OK to put stickers
on her, on her chair in the

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kitchen.
A couple things.

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One, Hunter does almost
everything, at least outside of

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this home, to the letter of the
law.

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And so one thing that I've been
working on in my own life that

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I've been kind of running a
parallel process with Hunter

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because I see it with her, is
this idea of bending the rules.

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And when there are opportunity,
when there are rules that you

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can bend, like the speed limit,
she always asks us what the

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speed limit is, right?
And we have to explain to her

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that like everybody pretty much
goes 10 miles over the speed

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limit.
Like that's not really breaking

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the rule, right?
And so I see even though she

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lied to Denny, which I think is
is definitely not OK, I guess I

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saw it as one of these rule
bending things and an act of

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self-expression and staking her
claim in our home, which is

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another theme that you know, and
all of you that are listening

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also know that I keep going back
to this, you know, family as a

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democracy and everyone having a
voice.

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So I want to encourage her
bending the rules.

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I want to encourage herself
expression.

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And so I have definitely feel in
conflict and I'm trying to

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figure out where is the through
line here that will feel right

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or at least as a compromise to
each member of our family.

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Because as I said this morning,
I feel like I'm the giant pole

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in the center of the circus,
like this tent pole.

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I don't feel like I have a view
on this one.

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And there's just like chaos
going all around.

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Like you're triggered, Hunters
triggered.

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Danny doesn't know what to do.
Jade and Maverick just start

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cleaning up because they kind of
knew that daddy wouldn't like it

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anyway.
And so they but they didn't want

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Hunter to be the only one with a
beautiful chair.

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So everybody's kind of got their
own feelings on the subject.

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And I think that this is a great
topic for family meeting, but

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also so relevant to our
conversation about boundaries

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because whose boundary wins?
Right.

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Who that's a great point.
You know, like you have these,

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you have these really strong
feelings that you just outlined

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and across these three different
three different ways that Hunter

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was in conflict with how you
want things to operate in.

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Our home, if you count the
stickers.

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Stickers are like the most
offensive thing.

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Possible.
Dads out there know what I'm

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talking about.
So this is where I really

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struggle with boundaries on like
what are Greg's preferences and

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triggers versus boundaries that
he has a right to uphold?

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Right, yeah, I'm still feeling
this out too.

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But I it's like pornography.
I know it when I see it.

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OK, I'm glad that that's where
that went once you said that

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word.
OK, so I don't know that we have

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an answer here, but this is
really something that I think

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consistently comes up in our
home.

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Today it came up about
self-expression and stickers in

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the kitchen.
It's just a lot to live.

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And especially as our kids get
older and they still start to

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have more of their own opinions
and want to take up more space

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in our home, which is something,
as you know, we are encouraging

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trying to figure out.
How are we making this a

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democracy where everyone's voice
is heard?

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But we do, you know, hopefully
better than our Congress, not

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end up with a giant mishmash,
but something that actually is

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consistent and makes sense to
live in alignment with our

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values.
Feel very good that with the

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structures that we're putting in
place, we can come to terms in

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some form of family meeting,
family stories, trying to

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understand everyone's
perspective.

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And this is a great example for
us to talk through because I do

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want there to be an outlet for
self-expression and I need to

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hold the line when it comes to
putting stickers on furniture.

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I just have to.
Understood.

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So as far as what can we commit
to working on then I think

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having this discussion at family
meeting.

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Well, and and also letting
Hunter know, hey, like, let's

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let's have this conversation.
You know, what I really don't

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like is you trying to go around
us because you know where that's

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going to end up.
Well, can we take some

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accountability and ownership
there and say, you know what?

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She probably knew from past
experience that daddy would just

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say no, right?
And that mommy would be a in

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quote UN quote easygoing
pushover.

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But.
It's a great topic for family

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meeting.
It's a great topic for.

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Family meeting.
We've got a family meeting wall,

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topic wall right there for for
her to write on.

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You know I want to decorate my
chair.

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OK, understood.
Well, I do think that you should

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give her that feedback then did
a different way to go about this

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because right now it kind of
feels like there's she has this

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desire for self-expression or
she has this creative idea and

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we're stunting that outlet as
opposed to sharing with her and

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even maybe Co creating with her
how this could have gone

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differently.
Yeah, I get it.

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Look, she's also right now she's
the leader of the of the three

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of them.
And when we're working and she

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comes up with some ideas, she
wants to lead and get carried

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away with it.
It makes total sense to me.

230
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,680
Yeah, Y'all, this is such a
weird week because school's out,

231
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,920
but camp hasn't started yet, so
everybody's kind of all over the

232
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,000
place.
We're working.

233
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,840
They don't have as much
structure as they're used to.

234
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,280
So this is just a tough week,
but it's an opportunity I think

235
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,040
to really get clear and set
intentions for the summer as

236
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:04,880
well.
Agreed.

237
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,360
Cool.
Let's frame the episode a little

238
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,960
bit here for a moment.
So we're talking about

239
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,480
boundaries.
We're, we're talking about those

240
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,040
within the home right now and
how we can use some of the tools

241
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,640
that we have, like family
meetings to better express what

242
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,200
those boundaries are and the
values that they represent.

243
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,160
I think what you did last week
around spending was a tremendous

244
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,240
way of showing a boundary.
So Jade lost her first tooth.

245
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,680
And with the loss of her first
tooth, she got $5 from the tooth

246
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,400
fairy.
And Hunter immediately said,

247
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,200
let's go to the dollar store.
So Jade can spend her $5.

248
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,280
Yeah.
And so.

249
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,480
Yeah, I freaked out a little bit
and I was like, wait, family

250
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,200
money episode #8 what is our
process?

251
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:48,800
And so I thought about living in
alignment with our values and

252
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,480
how to normalize money talk.
And so yes, me and GPT came

253
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,520
together to come up with a
little spending guide around

254
00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,920
what can you do?
Like first of all, Congrats, you

255
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,160
got $5.
What can you do with it?

256
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,280
What can $5 do for you?
And of course, we talked about

257
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,960
you can save it, you can spend
it, you can share it, or you can

258
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,920
wait until.
And it had this great idea of

259
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,360
what it, it called spending
Saturdays.

260
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,080
And so like once a month on a
Saturday or Sunday, the family

261
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,120
can buy with their money, our
family can buy with our money,

262
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,720
something that we've been
looking for, something that

263
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,440
we've been wanting, something
that's on our wish list.

264
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,520
And so that creates the
container.

265
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,360
I love a good container and that
creates the container for the

266
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,680
things like a dinosaur puzzle or
a sun catcher or a Unicorn lamp

267
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,440
that they've been talking about
for months.

268
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,960
And rather than immediately upon
getting money from the tooth

269
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:45,200
fairy running to a store to just
buy something, we can schedule a

270
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,160
time to use money if we want to.
I think that's so cool.

271
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,960
It's like organizational
behavior.

272
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,520
They're like we're teaching them
that we can come together to

273
00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,080
decide the best use of funds and
that it doesn't just need to be

274
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,960
spending for one person.
It could be for everybody, but

275
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,560
we decide what that money goes
to towards together and that

276
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:10,280
once a month we do that so that
you can build up this list over

277
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
the month and figure out what is
the highest order thing that you

278
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,120
want to take care of.
Yeah, Thanks, GPT, because I

279
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,160
think that was a really good
idea.

280
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,760
So cool.
I mean, it reminds me of our

281
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,520
quarterly budgeting meetings,
right, where you and I, we don't

282
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,480
necessarily talk too much about
big budget items or capital

283
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,120
expenditures over the course of
1/4.

284
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,120
But once 1/4, when we assess
what we've, what we've brought

285
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,960
in and where things are going,
how investments are doing, then

286
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,240
we can also talk about any big
budget items that we want to

287
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,040
spend money on.
That's right.

288
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,000
Yeah.
I love this.

289
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,320
They're learning.
Such great.

290
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,480
I wouldn't say it's boundaries
here, but this is a a big value

291
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,680
that's going to create the
deliberate boundaries in the

292
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,480
home around spending money and
when we do and how we do it.

293
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,720
Yeah.
Well, another boundary is, no, I

294
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,840
am not taking you to the dollar
store on Sunday morning with my

295
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,480
time because you got $5.
That's my boundary.

296
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,720
That's a great boundary.
The last thing I want to say is

297
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,640
about how grateful I am for the
family meetings because one of

298
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,480
the things that I read about
that I'm finding so true is this

299
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,200
idea that when you have a family
meeting, you've automatically

300
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,960
made space for these thorny
issues that come up.

301
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:23,160
And so this is 2 weeks in a row
where complex multivariate

302
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,440
issues have come up, where
different people have different

303
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,360
opinions on things.
Last week being commercial

304
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,600
characters and this week being
self-expression with stickers on

305
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,400
our kitchen chairs that I'm so
excited to have the time and

306
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,680
space allocated so that I don't
have to worry about it in the

307
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,960
middle of my work day on
Tuesday.

308
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,480
I know that we as a family are
going to get off the whiteboard.

309
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,240
We're going to write down
everybody's thoughts and

310
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,960
opinions and we are going to
come.

311
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,160
We are going to collaborate on
an outcome that may not feel

312
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,800
awesome to everyone, but where?
What do you like to say that a

313
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,080
great outcome is 1 Where all
sides feel uncomfortable?

314
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:01,400
Negotiation.
Is great, yeah.

315
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,240
So to come up with a great
negotiation where all sides feel

316
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,880
a little bit uncomfortable.
That's right.

317
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,560
But it's clear.
And by the way, we can iterate

318
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,880
on that, right?
But at least we have something

319
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,600
that we've all formulated
together and we can set forth

320
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,680
intentionally.
Yeah, it feels really good.

321
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,920
It does.
You know, a friend said to me

322
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,400
after listening.
Family stories, family meals,

323
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,400
love it.
I love it.

324
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,240
I'm putting those into practice.
Family meetings feel a little

325
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,240
too formal.
I think that what I'm noticing

326
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,000
with our family meetings is that
Hunter, who's 7, is a very

327
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,400
active and engaged participant.
Jade, sometimes Maverick just

328
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,160
for the snack in the game, but
that's OK.

329
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,120
We're modeling the behavior for
Maverick.

330
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,440
Jade is easing into
participation, and Hunter is

331
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,960
there basically in the tribunal
with the two of us making

332
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,160
decisions at age 7.
And it's not more than 20

333
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,440
minutes.
So to be able to get these

334
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,359
things out of the way and set up
the week for success in 20

335
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,319
minutes, I think is really worth
putting that structure around.

336
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,680
So I'd encourage us to keep
going here and I am committed to

337
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,200
to continuing here.
But anyone that feels a little

338
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,680
bit like sheepish about jumping
in, just make it 1 quick

339
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,040
question to solve for one quick
problem and have a snack.

340
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,680
That's it.
Yeah, because I can almost

341
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,000
guarantee that a problem will
come up during the week that you

342
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,160
don't feel like dealing with
exactly.

343
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,440
Maybe when you're all together
you can allocate 20 minutes on

344
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,720
the weekend.
That's right.

345
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,400
Just an idea.
OK, great.

346
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,080
So we've spoken a bit about
boundaries within our family.

347
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,600
Yep.
Now let's talk about now.

348
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,160
I got to lean back for this.
One Now let's talk about

349
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,160
boundaries with other adults in
our lives and how we as a family

350
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,040
navigate boundaries with other
individuals and the external

351
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,840
world.
Right, so where do you want to

352
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,880
start here?
Well, I'd, I'd like to stick to

353
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,520
our three questions.
So where do you think, where do

354
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,520
you think we're doing well?
With the outside world, with

355
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,440
anything that touches
acquaintances, schools,

356
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,160
business, we do really well.
I think just to put a finer

357
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,640
point on that, I'd say anywhere
that we have been asked to

358
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,320
commit our time outside of our
family, whether that's birthday

359
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,000
parties or extracurriculars or
school commitments.

360
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,080
That is a place where I feel
like we have been living within

361
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:39,400
our values, which is listening
for the quiet nose and politely

362
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,120
saying no thank you if they are
there, not over committing

363
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:47,720
ourselves and really focusing on
time with our nuclear family.

364
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,320
That's right.
I agree.

365
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,600
That's where we're doing well.
Where are we not doing so well?

366
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,520
Where compassion creeps in.
That's how I would define it.

367
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,360
Say more.
If I hold a boundary and I let

368
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:10,000
that boundary go, or I just let
it be a little bit more flexible

369
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,880
because of someone I love, I
usually regret it.

370
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,680
I almost always regret it, yeah.
And I think that it's the same

371
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,880
as with our kids.
Naming something that doesn't

372
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,800
work for you and the value that
it represents is an extremely

373
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,800
important skill in life because
boundaries, telling somebody no

374
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,400
and not naming why and not
naming what that means for you,

375
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,120
that's a failure because you're
not communicating anything.

376
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,520
You're just putting up a brick
wall.

377
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,720
If you can communicate that you
have a value and that this

378
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,640
boundary is set there because of
that value, because it protects

379
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,600
that value, someone can disagree
with that value, and that's OK.

380
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,720
But at least you've named what
that value is.

381
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,880
And so I try to name that value
these days.

382
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,160
But what I've noticed is that if
my value is #7 out of my most

383
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,720
important values and my boundary
of #7 conflicts with somebody's

384
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,920
number one, they will not hear
me.

385
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,000
They will not hear me because
they will say, oh, you're being

386
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,920
too rigid.
Because I care about being the

387
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,680
matriarch of this family.
And I'm the most important

388
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,320
person in this family because
that's how I was raised, because

389
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,200
I respected my mother and she
was the most important person.

390
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,800
And doesn't matter what you say
about no sweets or don't give my

391
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,560
kids cookies or whatever, I will
do what I want because I'm the

392
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,200
matriarch and that is my value.
And I don't know what to do in

393
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,920
those situations other than say,
OK, I see you.

394
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,160
That is no longer welcome in my
home.

395
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:45,840
And I don't know how to do any
better than.

396
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:47,760
Yeah, that's where you are
today.

397
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,560
That's where I am today.
Yeah, I got that.

398
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,480
I struggle with this idea of
telling people your boundaries.

399
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,480
You know, Brené Brown says clear
is kind unclear is unkind, which

400
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,640
is like her version of make the
implicit explicit.

401
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,760
And I think this also reminds me
of Mel Robbins when she has this

402
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,360
whole let them theory, right?
Just just let them.

403
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,360
Let them you can name your
boundary, but then let them.

404
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:13,280
I was talking to a friend the
other day and she said, you

405
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,920
know, Danielle, it's hard
because the people who need the

406
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,480
most boundaries are those that
are least receptive to hearing

407
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,880
them.
And that really hit me because

408
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,480
when I have tried to set
boundaries with people in my

409
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,720
life that I feel are not
supporting my growth, and maybe

410
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,480
I'm not supporting their growth
either, I've tended to do it in

411
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,600
a way that is, well, explicit,
right?

412
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,960
And thoughtful, but explicit.
And it has never been received

413
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,200
well, which has made me gun shy
to set boundaries and has made

414
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,040
me kind of want to be haphazard
and disorganized with them.

415
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,680
There's this poet, their name is
Elope, And they say how naive

416
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,080
was I to believe that if you
just found the right words and

417
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,960
put them in the appropriate
order, it would necessarily lead

418
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,120
to understanding.
And that's kind of been my

419
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,160
struggle with boundaries as an
adult.

420
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,920
The people that I want to set
boundaries with cannot hear me.

421
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,640
They cannot see me.
Hence why I need the boundary to

422
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:26,280
begin with.
And so a lot of my work today is

423
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:31,200
in trying to set those
boundaries quietly and doing

424
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,160
them for me without having to
explain myself.

425
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,320
Because I know this much that
explaining myself only makes

426
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,640
things worse.
I get questioned, I get gas lit,

427
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,880
I get told that I am controlling
and too rigid.

428
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,120
Yeah, it's it's this.
I guess the irony for me is that

429
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,040
I try to set a boundary in order
to be seen.

430
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,200
And if I have to set a boundary
with you, it's because you

431
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,320
haven't seen me.
That's right.

432
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,600
This must be a common scenario
in parenting.

433
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,080
It has to be because there are
so many sitcoms about this where

434
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:21,320
there's the mother-in-law or the
mother who just does not hear or

435
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,920
see the children.
And it's probably worth double

436
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,400
clicking on because we've heard
it from a couple of our friends

437
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,160
where they have one grandparent
that is extremely doting and

438
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:42,800
playful and respectful of the
parents wishes and another

439
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,040
grandparent who is my way or the
highway.

440
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,600
And how do you deal with that,
especially if those two

441
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,240
grandparents are husband and
wife?

442
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,000
Yeah, if anybody has the
answers, please let us know.

443
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:03,280
Yeah, what we've found is you
have to treat them very

444
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,960
separately and let one in and
keep the other away.

445
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,720
If that's what the doting
grandparent wants, right, Right.

446
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,120
Because they are a team.
And I really respect the

447
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,800
institution of marriage,
especially those that have been

448
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,720
married long enough to be
grandparents, right?

449
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,360
And so we need to make sure that
we maintain respect for the

450
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,520
choices that the grandparents in
our lives have made as well.

451
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,520
Yeah, but it doesn't mean we
need to bend over backwards to

452
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,240
accommodate, no.
Absolutely.

453
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,280
There's this great quote from
Nedra Glover, TWAB, where she

454
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,880
says you are not required to set
yourself on fire to keep other

455
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,920
people warm.
So.

456
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:43,880
True.
I love that.

457
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,920
And you know, I think about that
not Even so much with the toxic

458
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,720
external people in my life, but
in the ways that I've tried to

459
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,400
bend over backwards for the
doting side.

460
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,240
Does that make any sense?
The ways that I've tried to bend

461
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,120
over backwards to accommodate
the grandparent that really is

462
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,720
warm and go with the flow and
understands our values and where

463
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,400
I am right now when it comes to
boundaries, is that, well, I

464
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,280
don't know where I am.
I'm still figuring it out.

465
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,280
It's a day at a time right now.
I know though, that as my

466
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,680
children get older, as our
children get older, they are

467
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:32,240
more aware of toxic behavior
because it is so unusual in our

468
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,040
home.
And when it shows up here and it

469
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,320
causes ripples in the way that
you and I behave, in the way

470
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,560
that the children behave, it's
not acceptable.

471
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,880
And it makes me realize that
even if I have been doing my

472
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,440
best to justify toxic behavior,
because I think, oh, I can

473
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,880
handle it.
I've got my, I've got myself

474
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,520
compassion and self kindness
practices, right?

475
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,360
If I can, you know, I can handle
it.

476
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,480
And this is just the way it is.
There's something that happens

477
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,640
when I look at our children and
I say, you know what?

478
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,440
I don't want them to have to
handle it.

479
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,480
I don't want them to have to
come up with their tool kit for

480
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,280
dealing with toxic people in our
home.

481
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,040
This is not the place for that
type of behavior.

482
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,840
This is your base camp.
This is your safe space and you

483
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,600
do not deserve to have toxicity
here.

484
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,440
God bless them.
In our experience, our kids have

485
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,160
shown up before.
We've had to say anything saying

486
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,680
I don't want that here.
So true.

487
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,040
That's really weird, right?
It's so weird.

488
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,640
Talk about the intergenerational
self.

489
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,840
In all honesty, watching the way
that our daughter stands up for

490
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,800
herself with her grandparents is
shocking and beautiful.

491
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,080
Yeah, shocking and beautiful.
Well put.

492
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,280
OK.
So we talked about things that

493
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,840
we're doing well or talk about
things where I don't want to say

494
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,400
we're not doing well, but we
really just.

495
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,400
We're we're just learning.
We're in the learning.

496
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,760
Space.
We're figuring it out.

497
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,240
And what I'd like to commit to
is just to keep a pulse on our

498
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:18,360
children and the way that they
see the world as I navigate, as

499
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,840
we navigate how to set
boundaries outside of our

500
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,640
family.
Most definitely.

501
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,200
I'm not going to.
I'm not saying that I'm going to

502
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,160
let them lead us, but I am
recognizing in myself that there

503
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,040
still is this kind of inner
turmoil that creates a fog, if

504
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,240
you will.
And so I really value their

505
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,120
inputs and your input in how we
navigate relationships outside

506
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:43,480
of outside of our immediate
family.

507
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,440
It's.
Part of why I love the summer,

508
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,320
the kids are shaking off the
energy of their peers, whether

509
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,680
that's a good thing or a bad
thing.

510
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,040
You know, they've got positive
influences and negative

511
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,480
influences as we all do in our
peer set, but they're shaking it

512
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,000
all off.
And you can really see what's

513
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,800
stuck a couple days in a couple
weeks in a month or two in to

514
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,800
having no school.
So I'm excited to see how our

515
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,760
kids show up this summer and as
we prepare for a couple weeks of

516
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,320
travel, Just the nuclear family,
that should be pretty special.

517
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,640
Yeah, summer is a great reset.
The space, it's beautiful.

518
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,280
OK, so boundaries, we definitely
don't have this all figured out.

519
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,480
No way.
We are bumbling through it, but

520
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,120
we are trying to do it with some
intentionality.

521
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,560
Yeah.
And call to action is what do

522
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,520
you do in terms of boundaries at
home for, for your kids, with

523
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,480
your kids, for helping your kids
set boundaries with their

524
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,600
friends, for setting boundaries
between your nuclear family and

525
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,600
your extended family.
These are all things that we'd

526
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,640
love to hear about.
Yeah.

527
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,880
How are you modeling boundaries
with people in your life for

528
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680
your children?
It wasn't modeled great for me,

529
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,760
and so I would love to hear how
others are doing it.

530
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,480
All right, so to recap, the most
important thing about

531
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,560
boundaries, The point of a
boundary isn't to push people

532
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,880
away, it's to make it safe
enough to stay connected.

533
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,440
There's a pretty famous quote at
this point by Prentice Hemphill

534
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,760
who says boundaries are the
distance at which I can love you

535
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,560
and me simultaneously.
And sometimes with my children

536
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,240
that distance is centimeters and
sometimes it is states.

537
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,040
States.
So I think both are important

538
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,960
and just knowing, knowing where
we're at can be really

539
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,440
clarifying.
Absolutely.

540
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280
OK, more to be revealed on this
one.

541
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,600
Leave it here for now.
More to be revealed.

542
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,920
Love you, goosey love.
You goosey.

543
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,640
Hey guys, if you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of

544
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,800
person.
Thanks for spending this time

545
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,400
with us on The Most Important
Thing.

546
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,360
If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to follow

547
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,720
us wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with

548
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,480
someone else.
Building family culture on

549
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,040
purpose.