May 12, 2025
TMIT 05: Family Play
The Most Important Thing About Family Play
“The opposite of play isn’t work—it’s depression.” — Dr. Stuart BrownIn this episode, we explore why play isn’t just for kids—and why families who play together are more connected, creative, and resilient. Drawing from the work of Dr. Stuart Brown, founder of the National Institute for Play, we unpack how play acts as developmental glue that holds families together.
We discuss:
- What play actually is —not a strict definition, but a state of mind marked by joy, spontaneity, and freedom.
- Dr. Brown’s 7 properties of play , from its purposeless nature to its magnetic pull that makes us want to keep coming back.
- Why play matters for families: it builds emotional safety , strengthens problem-solving , and encourages adaptability .
- TMIT: The power of knowing your play personality (are you a Joker, Explorer, Artist, Director?)—and how it helps reduce resistance and invite connection throughout your family.
- How spectator play (like watching a game or show together) can offer deep intergenerational connection.
Show Notes:
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Ready.
Rolling.
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Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.
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I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld.
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00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,240
And together, we're exploring
how ambitious busy families can
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build culture at home.
Because after all, family is the
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most important thing.
Hi, Greg.
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Hey, Danielle.
We have come to my favorite
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topic of all.
Oh yeah.
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Family play.
Family play You are a playful 1.
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So are you in different ways?
Yes, in different ways.
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I love games and moving my body
and being curious, and you are
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very playful with language.
With language and with song,
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with pop culture.
And I can get into a good board
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game so long as I'm comfortable.
I find that as I am reaching my
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old age, the most important
thing for me is to be able to
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sit comfortably.
And for some reason, no one
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figured out how to do that with
board games.
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Really.
They're you're usually in some
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uncomfortable contorted position
on the floor at a coffee table,
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kneeling or like, you know, have
one leg pinned behind you while
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you're trying to move a piece or
get a card from somebody.
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It's just not easy.
Dads, can you can you get with
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me on this one?
Greg, you're laying the
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groundwork for my next episode
and experiment on family space
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and what I'm going to ask of
you.
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So.
Oh yeah.
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All right.
It involves board games, let's
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put it that way.
Sounds good.
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OK, so family play.
Life is play.
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Life is play.
According to Doctor Stuart
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Brown, founder of the National
Institute of Play, play isn't
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just a fun diversion, it's
developmental glue.
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And within families, play
fosters connection, resilience,
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emotional regulation, and
creativity across all ages.
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In families, this translates to
stronger bonds, better
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communication, and a more joyful
home.
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So what is play?
For me, play is a state of mind.
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I have to tell you, I can hop
into it in all sorts of
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different ways, whether it's
Wordle or connections on my
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phone or putting a Slack line
out front or other types of
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competitive challenges that we
do with our bodies to a good old
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board game or puzzle.
I love all of those things and
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I'm sure more if I thought about
it.
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What is a slack line for those
of you out there who don't know?
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I don't know.
How would you describe the slack
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line?
It's a line that you try to walk
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on that is very difficult.
It's like a tightrope.
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It's like a tightrope that you
can string between two objects,
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like a TRX band that's really,
really tight.
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But it still has a lot of give
and I got to tell you, I can get
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like 2 steps on it.
Danielle can get it all the way
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across now.
Not consistently though.
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It's hard.
The first time I ever saw it, I
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was traveling for work in Sao
Paulo and I saw these really
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athletic surfer guys string up a
slack line between who palm
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trees and just go at it time
after time after time, falling
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and falling and falling, and I
thought it was so cool.
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Yeah, now we have 1.
And now we have 1.
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So cool.
How about you?
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What?
What do you think of when you
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think of play?
Growing up, it was a lot of St.
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play, whether it was baseball or
basketball or riding bikes, but
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I grew up on a quiet street
with, with lots of young kids.
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So there was a lot of
neighborhood activity.
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And then we also had woods
behind our houses.
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So we would play in the woods,
we would play manhunt and we had
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trampolines.
And so I think of outdoorsy
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things for sure.
That's kind of like what I grew
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up with.
I we had a basement full of
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games too.
But to tell you the truth, ping
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pong is the one that I remember
most fondly.
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I can't think of breaking out
those Monopoly type games more
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than a couple times in my
childhood.
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Interesting.
Yeah.
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As a child, I played outside a
lot.
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Also.
We too had woods in our
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backyard.
And I'm an only child, but my
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dad is a play master.
He is.
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So we spent a lot of time
running football plays and
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hitting baseballs and playing
every type of catch imaginable
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between trackball and those
things with the sticky suction.
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I mean, any type of catch game
he was into.
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And then I, you know, we made-up
games a lot like me and my
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friends growing up.
I remember I had a canopy bed
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and we used to take all the hats
in the house and put it on top
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of the cabin to be and then play
the hat game where we would
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count like who could knock off
the most hats in 30 seconds?
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One of our favorite games.
I think about it to this day,
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the car game, same thing.
How many times can you run up
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and down the driveway before
another car came?
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Lots of fun and creative things
that kept us laughing and out of
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boredom.
I love that.
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Yeah, but what about as an
adult?
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How do you like to play?
You know, I can get tunnel
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vision on most anything.
And so I find that if I find
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myself procrastinating with
something online, it's usually
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my form of play, which is maybe
it's reading a certain type of
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industry news blog or something
like that, or, you know, going
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deep on a sub stack or X or.
But it's honestly it's so lame
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when I say this out loud because
my play is learning more about
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business builders and
entrepreneurs and I don't do
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enough of the neuroplasticity
development when it comes to
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expanding my mind through games.
I don't know about that.
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Well, what I'd like to talk
about today is how we can
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broaden what we define as play
and learn a bit more about how
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each of us individually like to
play and how our children do and
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create these different play
groupings, if you will, like
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thinking about how to play in a
loose but constructive manner.
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00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,840
Cool, yeah.
So what is Play?
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Well, Doctor Stuart Brown, who,
as I mentioned, he's the founder
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of the National Institute of
Play and quite the guru.
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Doctor Brown issues defining
play.
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I always look for a good
opportunity to use that word,
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stating that defining play
almost defeats its purpose.
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But he did give a loose
framework of the contours that
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distinguish it from other
activities.
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So as far as the things that are
play, it is apparently
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purposeless, done for its own
sake, not for a specific
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outcome.
It's voluntary, freely chosen,
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not required.
It has an inherent attraction.
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It's fun and engaging and we're
drawn to it.
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You are free from time.
You often lose track of time
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while playing Diminished self
consciousness.
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So you're not self critical or
worried about how you look while
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you're playing.
Improvisational potential.
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It's flexible and often some
spontaneous.
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And finally, there's a
continuation desire.
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You want it to keep going or to
come back to it.
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00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,000
I want to change my answer a
little bit.
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00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,000
OK, I didn't know what the
question was.
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About what I think of when I
think of play.
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So the outdoor play, that was
the collaborative, but there's
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lots of play that I did as a kid
that just consumed hours and
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hours.
And interestingly, he was either
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setting up or taking apart
electronic equipment, trying new
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software or recording my own
voice.
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And I'm like laughing so hard
because this to me feels like
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play.
Oh, there you go.
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Yeah, lots of recording, lots of
singing, lots of just trying to
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be on the radio, you know, as a
kid and recording music with
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friends.
I just loved the idea of being
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on the microphone.
So don't let me take up too much
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airtime.
Very cool.
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Very, very cool.
I love hearing that and why play
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matters for families because
ultimately that's what we're
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talking about, right?
Couple things.
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Play builds emotional safety, so
it's about attachment and trust.
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Families that play together are
creative and adaptable.
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It's a great way to stay
flexible.
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Play rehearses life in low
stakes ways so it can bring
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forth resilience and the
family's ability to problem
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solve.
And finally, you want to keep
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coming back.
Indeed.
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So these are some reasons why
play matters.
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Have I convinced you yet that we
should further our exploration
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of play?
Well, I think it was either
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Thanksgiving or Christmas, the
first one that we spent together
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with your parents.
And I was looking around for
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your dad and he was nowhere to
be found.
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00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,520
And I look in the TV room where
at your cousin's house and he's
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on the floor with all the little
kids playing.
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And I was like, oh man, this is
great because when we have kids,
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he's going to love this.
And that's not really me.
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00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,480
Yeah.
So I want to learn a little bit
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from that as long as I'm
comfortable and engage in play.
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So this is this episode is
exciting for me because I, I
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feel like I'm the Guinea pig
here.
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Totally.
It's exciting for me, too,
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because I think I may have
stumbled upon a framework that
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can be helpful in having you
kind of move the ball forward or
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integrate play.
Because it's true, you are such
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a loving, doting father.
But playing with our kids or
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playing with me, Nope, is not
necessarily something that you
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currently spend a lot of time
doing.
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Yeah.
And I would guess you're not
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alone.
I would imagine not.
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OK, so how, how do we play
within our families?
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Well, Doctor Stuart Brown
identifies 8 flay personalities
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to help people understand how
they naturally play.
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His insight is that not everyone
plays the same way, and that
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recognizing your style and the
style of other members in your
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family can help you invite more
authentic, joyful play into
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family life.
Cool.
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00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,920
Yeah.
So it turns out that they have
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identified, as I mentioned, 8
different flay personalities.
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00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,680
And if you're open to it, I
would love to have you take the
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00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,120
play personality quiz live so we
can figure out your play style.
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Sounds great, let's do it.
OK, great.
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Should I go through the
different play styles?
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If that is good precedent, then
yes.
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I think so.
So there's the Joker, who brings
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joy and laughter to any room.
The Kenneth's feet where your
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body leads, the fun, the
explorer curiosity.
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Is your playground the
competitor?
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Games and challenges are your
jam.
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The director you love shaping
the play experience, the
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collector you find delight in
gathering what you love, the
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artist or creator making things
is your kind of play and the
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storyteller.
Words and imagination are where
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you shine.
Yeah, I grew up with a director.
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My mom loved to organize the
play, just loved it.
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And I'd say my dad was probably
on the kinesthetic side, you
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know, let's go play tennis,
let's go play basketball, let's
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play baseball.
He was my coach and everything.
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And he showed up in athletic
ways and just always wanted to
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be thinking as that as a way for
us to connect, OK.
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00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,880
Very cool.
Now let's see what you are.
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00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,560
Yep.
OK, first question, you have
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$50.00 that you have to spend on
one of the following items.
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What do you get?
A ridiculous hat?
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A pair of binoculars, a ticket
to a writing workshop or a set
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of traffic cones.
I think a pair of binoculars.
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OK, your new podcast is most
likely to be called It Started
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00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,000
with one My quest to complete my
collection the neighborhood.
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00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,720
Fascinating backstories I have
made-up for people I don't know.
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00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,880
You can't make a podcast about
that.
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00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,200
My journey in making abstract
art or how to do stuff.
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00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,480
Weekly Instructions for doing
stuff.
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00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,880
The neighborhood.
Fascinating backstories I've
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00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,560
made-up for people I don't know.
Sweet, you're already excited.
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00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,680
About that, I really, yeah.
Stay tuned.
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00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,960
A couple episodes.
OK, next question.
223
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,520
Surprise.
Your home suddenly has a new
224
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,120
spacious bedroom.
You immediately set to work
225
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,600
converting it into a space to
organize and display your
226
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,080
collection.
A dance studio, A decked out
227
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120
space for your gaming PC, or an
art studio.
228
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,480
If I have to take all those
literally, then it would be a
229
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,360
space to organize and display
your collection.
230
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,720
OK, I bet it had if it had said
some type of electronics if.
231
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,720
It was like a CrossFit studio
or, you know, elect, you know,
232
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,400
something that wasn't.
Your CrossFit stuff is kind of
233
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,400
your collection.
Yeah.
234
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,480
Cool.
OK, you haven't seen your long
235
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,640
distance best friend in months.
You pick them up at the airport
236
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,040
and take them straight to a
place you've never been before
237
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,160
so you can check it out
together.
238
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,280
Your latest eBay purchase for
your collection?
239
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,360
Show them your latest bargain
find from online classifieds or
240
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:21,200
show them a painting you've been
working on.
241
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,760
Place I've never been before,
but it is one of the best places
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00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,880
in the world.
Oh cool.
243
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,240
Yeah, you're so good at that.
OK, your new YouTube series
244
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,000
features you performing tricks
you learned in your circus arts
245
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,520
class, discussing the nuances of
a highly specific niche
246
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,840
interest.
Just three minutes of making
247
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,280
weird faces explaining how you
managed to beat a video game
248
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160
that you just came out of.
Explaining how I managed to beat
249
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,240
a video game.
OK.
250
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,480
Sorry that that just came out.
OK, three more.
251
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,200
Questions.
I loved that.
252
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,240
I loved playing games growing up
on N64 and the Wii and stuff
253
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,960
like that.
But my favorite was following
254
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,760
the book hacks about how to beat
those games.
255
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,280
Like the online guides.
I forget the website but that
256
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,360
was that was my favorite.
Cool, me too.
257
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,200
Super Mario hacks I loved.
OK, you work at an elementary
258
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,960
school now, but at least you get
to pick your position.
259
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,240
You're the librarian, art
teacher, PE instructor,
260
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,320
principal, or janitor that
everyone adores because you're
261
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,600
hilarious.
Interesting.
262
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,080
I guess I'm the principal.
Of course you are.
263
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,680
Everyone at your school or work
has to join a club.
264
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080
What club do you join?
The fiction writing club, Improv
265
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,000
group trading card club,
Marathon trading club?
266
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,480
Or I'm starting a club for the
people who think they shouldn't
267
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,520
have to join clubs.
Improv group all day.
268
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,080
Last question, you just parked
at your favorite City Park, what
269
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,200
is next?
Find some folks for a pickup
270
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,200
game of something.
Find a new hiking trail and give
271
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,400
it a try.
Go for a run and try to beat
272
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,160
your time from your last visit,
or go make up backstories for
273
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,880
the squabbling ducks.
Go for a run and try to beat my
274
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,280
time.
What?
275
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,880
Is my play type.
Your play type is explorer.
276
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,360
The explorer plays through
learning.
277
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,280
They want to know and
understand.
278
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,480
This type of play is a way of
orienting to the world as a
279
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,880
learner.
Explorer type play personalities
280
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,120
may enjoy leisure time spent
reading non fiction, traipsing
281
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,480
through a forest looking for a
particular bug or Fern, or
282
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,280
tracking tides to know exactly
when to time their best
283
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,880
beachcombing adventure.
OK.
284
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,120
How does that resonate with you?
I mean I did make a tides app
285
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,160
for our beach so that and not a
tides app but a beach flag.
286
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,240
App you did.
So that tracks.
287
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,000
I think that if you abstract out
the nature part, that's very
288
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,640
much me, yeah.
I don't think it has to be
289
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,560
nature to be an explorer,
because I like nature, but it's
290
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,040
not where I grew up.
I grew up playing on the street
291
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,200
or inside with my toys.
Yeah, yeah, I think nature could
292
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,960
be substituted for technology.
I also think that quizzes like
293
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,880
this are are fun and helpful to
show maybe your dominant play
294
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,840
characteristics.
Because I came up Explorer too.
295
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,200
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
296
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,720
But I would say I'm probably
like 60% Explorer, 20%
297
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,160
kinesthetic.
What about the 90% competitor?
298
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,200
I was going to give myself like
10% anyway.
299
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,840
Low key competitor.
Yeah, I love all of these
300
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,320
things.
And we'll link into the show
301
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,640
notes, to the quiz, and then
also to the little graphic that
302
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,320
they have on the way that adults
play.
303
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,480
But to me it's much more of a
love language kind of thing,
304
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,600
where maybe you have your
dominant love language, but your
305
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,120
top three or four are all
relevant too.
306
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,880
Because humans are complex,
right?
307
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,600
Sure.
So I don't know if you looking
308
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,720
at this little infographic that
I have in front of you, if there
309
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,640
are any besides Explorer that
resonate with you.
310
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,200
The storyteller I would say too,
I really do like making up silly
311
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,839
stories and improving with the
kids and just in general and.
312
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,760
Then what about thinking about
our kids?
313
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,800
Maybe we can certainly ask them
as well.
314
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,880
But.
They would say I'm the joke.
315
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,200
They would say I'm the Joker.
They would say you're the Joker.
316
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,240
That's just I know you Facetimed
every funny face today already.
317
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,240
Exactly.
Little kids and FaceTime emojis
318
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,800
are just putty in my hand.
Yeah.
319
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,880
And I think they would
definitely say that I'm the
320
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,400
director.
Right.
321
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,200
I do a lot of play galvanizing
if you will.
322
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,000
So there's a lot here.
What are we trying to advance
323
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,680
and take away?
So I think why this matters is
324
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,240
that knowing your family's play
personalities can reduce
325
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,960
resistance to play, knowing that
you're not forcing yourself into
326
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,960
someone else's play style and it
invites connection.
327
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,560
For sure, yeah.
So again, knowing your style,
328
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,840
knowing the style of the other
folks in your family, you can
329
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,280
say I see you, I'm going to play
with you your way for now and
330
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840
we're going to play my way
later, you know?
331
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:15,040
Usually we're thinking about
experiments that are measurable
332
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,840
and time bound.
Is that the case here or is this
333
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,440
something else?
I don't think so.
334
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,360
I think this is the most
intentionally abstract
335
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,320
experiment that we could ask
for.
336
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,440
I mean, I, like I said, the guy
who is the play guru hates
337
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,840
defining it and says that it
almost defeats its purpose.
338
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,400
He said that defining play is
like explaining a joke.
339
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,640
It kind of loses it.
So I keep going to this idea of
340
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,320
a playful state of mind.
I've heard it, you know, and Amy
341
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,800
Mccready's positive parenting
solution, she just talks about
342
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,240
it as the child state as opposed
to the adult ego state.
343
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,120
But it's this feeling of
playfulness, I think that you,
344
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:07,360
you know, when you were in it.
And So what I am asking, however
345
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,800
you want to structure the
experiment works for me, but is
346
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,880
to bring moments of playfulness
to your day.
347
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,640
And this is really an ask of me
to you.
348
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,960
Not just with our children.
That's great.
349
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,000
But I think for yourself and for
the two of us together, I think
350
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,600
we play when we're working out.
We love playing at work.
351
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,040
We love playing on this podcast.
But I was scared to ask you if
352
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,640
you would played Settlers of
Catan with me last week.
353
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,640
I know.
So if we could just lower the
354
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,920
barrier to entry there, that
would be great.
355
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,160
I think personally, selfishly, I
appreciate that.
356
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,960
Yeah, what's showing up here is
invitations for play.
357
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,520
So our kids all went to and two
of them still go to this amazing
358
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,200
outdoor nature pre-K program
called Sunflower Creative Arts.
359
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,560
And throughout the playscape
there are invitations for play.
360
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,520
Some are crafts, some are nature
based, some are adventure based,
361
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,800
but then they switch them up.
I'm looking at them funny
362
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,480
because crafts that they would
hate if you said that word
363
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,600
crafts.
They're open-ended invitations,
364
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,520
right?
So they'll put out a lot of
365
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,880
things.
I meant like putting out shaving
366
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,160
cream and like, you know.
But how you use them is up to
367
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,240
the personality.
That's the whole point is that
368
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080
they're not contrived.
Yes.
369
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,360
And so I'm wondering if there's
an opportunity for us to create
370
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,320
invitations for play for
ourselves, not necessarily for
371
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,040
the kids, but I know that you
have some plans when it comes to
372
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520
space, and I believe that's
going to integrate with what
373
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,880
we're talking about here.
Easter egg for future episode.
374
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,440
Yep, but also Greg, what do you
think the slack line is?
375
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,160
I know, but I mean for me, so
I'm thinking you are very good
376
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,840
at asking for what you need with
invitations for play for
377
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,440
yourself and for the kids.
Yes, Those things usually do not
378
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,360
appeal to me.
And so I think that if I can
379
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,360
look for some invitations for
play, which would be really nice
380
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,840
because it's not all on you to
to come up with those.
381
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,120
And you and I can talk about
what some of those invitations
382
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,360
for play that I would like to
engage in both for me and our
383
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,800
kids and for you around the
house.
384
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,480
I think that would that would
feel really like the right type
385
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,680
of experiment.
That's awesome.
386
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,160
I love hearing that.
Yeah, I would love, and I'm
387
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,840
happy to help you with this, but
I would love if we had some
388
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,480
invitations for play that appeal
to you around our home the way
389
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,000
that we do for me and the kids.
Whether we have a slack line or
390
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,280
a sensory swing or balance
boards or puzzles in every room,
391
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,240
board games around every corner,
there are constant reminders to
392
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,200
the rest of us that life is
play.
393
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,760
And I think we haven't
necessarily tapped in to what
394
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,640
puts you in that playful state.
And I would love to explore that
395
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,560
further with you.
Yeah, no, totally.
396
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,680
I think there's probably some
toys from growing up that I
397
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,120
could get down with, Lego sets
that we work on as a family,
398
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,960
just like the puzzles that we
work on as a family.
399
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,520
I think Legos are my version of
puzzles and even some relics.
400
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,960
Like I had the huge collection
of baseball cards and pogs and
401
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,360
all those things.
I love collecting things so not
402
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:40,480
saying that we need to collect
the baseball cards, but.
403
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,160
Collector is one of the types of
players, by the way.
404
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,320
Collector is one of the types of
players.
405
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,280
I mean, I collected Ninja
Turtles, GI Joes, Legos,
406
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,160
baseball cards, Pogs, you name
it, I was collecting them.
407
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,320
I.
Didn't know that about you.
408
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,160
How cool.
Yeah, fun.
409
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,440
I just love displaying them.
I loved having them out.
410
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,800
I love looking through them.
I think that we could extend
411
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,400
that to photo albums and
scrapbooks for the family,
412
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,320
putting those together.
That's something that I could
413
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,200
see being really good for us.
I mean, our kids love looking
414
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,320
through our wedding album,
right?
415
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,080
And it's really hard these days
with just all the photos on the
416
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,600
phone.
So maybe we could do some
417
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,680
printing and get a photo printer
set up or something like that.
418
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,280
Just that's fun.
Yeah, I love that idea.
419
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,400
Write that down.
I mean 3D printer would be
420
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,600
awesome too at some point.
OK, you're on a roll.
421
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,760
Well, you know, I just think
about these things that I'm
422
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,120
like, I've come up with lots of
exciting ideas for a someday
423
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,120
rainy day thing in my mind, and
this is bringing them out.
424
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,640
Yeah.
The time is now.
425
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,600
Yeah, for sure.
Cool.
426
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,880
Wow, Greg, I love that.
I love that we opened this space
427
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,360
for play and you jumped right
in.
428
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,440
I think it just opening the
dialogue about what it was that
429
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320
I like to do really was the
inspiration there.
430
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,400
So thanks for doing that.
Absolutely.
431
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,280
Yeah, it's cool.
I have one more note that is
432
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480
particularly impactful for
intergenerational play, and
433
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,480
that's spectator play.
So Doctor Brown talks about some
434
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,800
of his fondest boyhood memories
are around watching games with
435
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,080
his dad.
And so I, I don't want to
436
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,040
overlook that one as well, that
it's especially for
437
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,200
intergenerational connection,
Spectator sports can be a way to
438
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,080
regularly experience mutual joy
and share those experiences with
439
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,680
others.
Yeah.
440
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,160
This summer we can hit some of
the minor league games.
441
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,680
Yes.
I really do like baseball games.
442
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,240
We took Hunter with some of our
work colleagues to a baseball
443
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480
game and she had absolutely no
frame of reference for a
444
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,880
baseball game and loved it,
loved it, loved it, and we all
445
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,760
had a great day.
It was great.
446
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,080
So I think that that's also a
great way to bond and share
447
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,280
connection.
Yeah, cool.
448
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,840
OK, more to come I guess.
Yeah, absolutely.
449
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,280
I look forward to reporting back
on these experiments around
450
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,880
play.
Stay tuned for next time when we
451
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,440
will have some exeriments to
report back on.
452
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,520
Yes, absolutely.
All right, that's it for now, ye
453
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,240
all.
Right.
454
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,560
Love you, Goosey.
Love you, goosey.
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:02,200
Ready.
Rolling.
2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,000
Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.
3
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,760
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld.
4
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,240
And together, we're exploring
how ambitious busy families can
5
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,600
build culture at home.
Because after all, family is the
6
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,280
most important thing.
Hi, Greg.
7
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,960
Hey, Danielle.
We have come to my favorite
8
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,360
topic of all.
Oh yeah.
9
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,920
Family play.
Family play You are a playful 1.
10
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,800
So are you in different ways?
Yes, in different ways.
11
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:38,080
I love games and moving my body
and being curious, and you are
12
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,200
very playful with language.
With language and with song,
13
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,320
with pop culture.
And I can get into a good board
14
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:53,120
game so long as I'm comfortable.
I find that as I am reaching my
15
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,360
old age, the most important
thing for me is to be able to
16
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,680
sit comfortably.
And for some reason, no one
17
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,920
figured out how to do that with
board games.
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00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,680
Really.
They're you're usually in some
19
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,400
uncomfortable contorted position
on the floor at a coffee table,
20
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,840
kneeling or like, you know, have
one leg pinned behind you while
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00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,480
you're trying to move a piece or
get a card from somebody.
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00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,440
It's just not easy.
Dads, can you can you get with
23
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,160
me on this one?
Greg, you're laying the
24
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,960
groundwork for my next episode
and experiment on family space
25
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,160
and what I'm going to ask of
you.
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00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,560
So.
Oh yeah.
27
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,200
All right.
It involves board games, let's
28
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,520
put it that way.
Sounds good.
29
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,760
OK, so family play.
Life is play.
30
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,920
Life is play.
According to Doctor Stuart
31
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,680
Brown, founder of the National
Institute of Play, play isn't
32
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,160
just a fun diversion, it's
developmental glue.
33
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,160
And within families, play
fosters connection, resilience,
34
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,480
emotional regulation, and
creativity across all ages.
35
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,640
In families, this translates to
stronger bonds, better
36
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,440
communication, and a more joyful
home.
37
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,840
So what is play?
For me, play is a state of mind.
38
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,680
I have to tell you, I can hop
into it in all sorts of
39
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,280
different ways, whether it's
Wordle or connections on my
40
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,880
phone or putting a Slack line
out front or other types of
41
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,440
competitive challenges that we
do with our bodies to a good old
42
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,000
board game or puzzle.
I love all of those things and
43
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,400
I'm sure more if I thought about
it.
44
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,960
What is a slack line for those
of you out there who don't know?
45
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,440
I don't know.
How would you describe the slack
46
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,840
line?
It's a line that you try to walk
47
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,360
on that is very difficult.
It's like a tightrope.
48
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,560
It's like a tightrope that you
can string between two objects,
49
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,120
like a TRX band that's really,
really tight.
50
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,480
But it still has a lot of give
and I got to tell you, I can get
51
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,560
like 2 steps on it.
Danielle can get it all the way
52
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,160
across now.
Not consistently though.
53
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,440
It's hard.
The first time I ever saw it, I
54
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,400
was traveling for work in Sao
Paulo and I saw these really
55
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560
athletic surfer guys string up a
slack line between who palm
56
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,480
trees and just go at it time
after time after time, falling
57
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,480
and falling and falling, and I
thought it was so cool.
58
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,600
Yeah, now we have 1.
And now we have 1.
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00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,480
So cool.
How about you?
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00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,720
What?
What do you think of when you
61
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,560
think of play?
Growing up, it was a lot of St.
62
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,040
play, whether it was baseball or
basketball or riding bikes, but
63
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,760
I grew up on a quiet street
with, with lots of young kids.
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00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,000
So there was a lot of
neighborhood activity.
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00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,960
And then we also had woods
behind our houses.
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00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,200
So we would play in the woods,
we would play manhunt and we had
67
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,680
trampolines.
And so I think of outdoorsy
68
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,640
things for sure.
That's kind of like what I grew
69
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,000
up with.
I we had a basement full of
70
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,920
games too.
But to tell you the truth, ping
71
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,280
pong is the one that I remember
most fondly.
72
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,720
I can't think of breaking out
those Monopoly type games more
73
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,160
than a couple times in my
childhood.
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00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,040
Interesting.
Yeah.
75
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,440
As a child, I played outside a
lot.
76
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,080
Also.
We too had woods in our
77
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,160
backyard.
And I'm an only child, but my
78
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,360
dad is a play master.
He is.
79
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,240
So we spent a lot of time
running football plays and
80
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,840
hitting baseballs and playing
every type of catch imaginable
81
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,960
between trackball and those
things with the sticky suction.
82
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,480
I mean, any type of catch game
he was into.
83
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,920
And then I, you know, we made-up
games a lot like me and my
84
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,360
friends growing up.
I remember I had a canopy bed
85
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,120
and we used to take all the hats
in the house and put it on top
86
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,800
of the cabin to be and then play
the hat game where we would
87
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,880
count like who could knock off
the most hats in 30 seconds?
88
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,160
One of our favorite games.
I think about it to this day,
89
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,920
the car game, same thing.
How many times can you run up
90
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,680
and down the driveway before
another car came?
91
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:46,000
Lots of fun and creative things
that kept us laughing and out of
92
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,280
boredom.
I love that.
93
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,040
Yeah, but what about as an
adult?
94
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,840
How do you like to play?
You know, I can get tunnel
95
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:59,440
vision on most anything.
And so I find that if I find
96
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,160
myself procrastinating with
something online, it's usually
97
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,880
my form of play, which is maybe
it's reading a certain type of
98
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,280
industry news blog or something
like that, or, you know, going
99
00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:19,800
deep on a sub stack or X or.
But it's honestly it's so lame
100
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,880
when I say this out loud because
my play is learning more about
101
00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:27,040
business builders and
entrepreneurs and I don't do
102
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,040
enough of the neuroplasticity
development when it comes to
103
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,480
expanding my mind through games.
I don't know about that.
104
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,720
Well, what I'd like to talk
about today is how we can
105
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,440
broaden what we define as play
and learn a bit more about how
106
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,800
each of us individually like to
play and how our children do and
107
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:52,200
create these different play
groupings, if you will, like
108
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,000
thinking about how to play in a
loose but constructive manner.
109
00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,840
Cool, yeah.
So what is Play?
110
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,720
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown, who,
as I mentioned, he's the founder
111
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,640
of the National Institute of
Play and quite the guru.
112
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,240
Doctor Brown issues defining
play.
113
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,360
I always look for a good
opportunity to use that word,
114
00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,040
stating that defining play
almost defeats its purpose.
115
00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,160
But he did give a loose
framework of the contours that
116
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,680
distinguish it from other
activities.
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00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,920
So as far as the things that are
play, it is apparently
118
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,600
purposeless, done for its own
sake, not for a specific
119
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,880
outcome.
It's voluntary, freely chosen,
120
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,080
not required.
It has an inherent attraction.
121
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,360
It's fun and engaging and we're
drawn to it.
122
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,440
You are free from time.
You often lose track of time
123
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,800
while playing Diminished self
consciousness.
124
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,720
So you're not self critical or
worried about how you look while
125
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,160
you're playing.
Improvisational potential.
126
00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:54,840
It's flexible and often some
spontaneous.
127
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,840
And finally, there's a
continuation desire.
128
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,520
You want it to keep going or to
come back to it.
129
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,000
I want to change my answer a
little bit.
130
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,000
OK, I didn't know what the
question was.
131
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,560
About what I think of when I
think of play.
132
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,200
So the outdoor play, that was
the collaborative, but there's
133
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,640
lots of play that I did as a kid
that just consumed hours and
134
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,000
hours.
And interestingly, he was either
135
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:25,720
setting up or taking apart
electronic equipment, trying new
136
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,400
software or recording my own
voice.
137
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,120
And I'm like laughing so hard
because this to me feels like
138
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,400
play.
Oh, there you go.
139
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,000
Yeah, lots of recording, lots of
singing, lots of just trying to
140
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,560
be on the radio, you know, as a
kid and recording music with
141
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,080
friends.
I just loved the idea of being
142
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,320
on the microphone.
So don't let me take up too much
143
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:53,920
airtime.
Very cool.
144
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:59,120
Very, very cool.
I love hearing that and why play
145
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,840
matters for families because
ultimately that's what we're
146
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,280
talking about, right?
Couple things.
147
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,120
Play builds emotional safety, so
it's about attachment and trust.
148
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,080
Families that play together are
creative and adaptable.
149
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:14,800
It's a great way to stay
flexible.
150
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,640
Play rehearses life in low
stakes ways so it can bring
151
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,160
forth resilience and the
family's ability to problem
152
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,840
solve.
And finally, you want to keep
153
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,440
coming back.
Indeed.
154
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,320
So these are some reasons why
play matters.
155
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,760
Have I convinced you yet that we
should further our exploration
156
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,919
of play?
Well, I think it was either
157
00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,679
Thanksgiving or Christmas, the
first one that we spent together
158
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,880
with your parents.
And I was looking around for
159
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,920
your dad and he was nowhere to
be found.
160
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,520
And I look in the TV room where
at your cousin's house and he's
161
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,400
on the floor with all the little
kids playing.
162
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,680
And I was like, oh man, this is
great because when we have kids,
163
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,480
he's going to love this.
And that's not really me.
164
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,480
Yeah.
So I want to learn a little bit
165
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,720
from that as long as I'm
comfortable and engage in play.
166
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,160
So this is this episode is
exciting for me because I, I
167
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,640
feel like I'm the Guinea pig
here.
168
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,960
Totally.
It's exciting for me, too,
169
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,960
because I think I may have
stumbled upon a framework that
170
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,760
can be helpful in having you
kind of move the ball forward or
171
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,320
integrate play.
Because it's true, you are such
172
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,840
a loving, doting father.
But playing with our kids or
173
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,960
playing with me, Nope, is not
necessarily something that you
174
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,360
currently spend a lot of time
doing.
175
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,840
Yeah.
And I would guess you're not
176
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,760
alone.
I would imagine not.
177
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,920
OK, so how, how do we play
within our families?
178
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,040
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown
identifies 8 flay personalities
179
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,240
to help people understand how
they naturally play.
180
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,600
His insight is that not everyone
plays the same way, and that
181
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,840
recognizing your style and the
style of other members in your
182
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,600
family can help you invite more
authentic, joyful play into
183
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,080
family life.
Cool.
184
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,920
Yeah.
So it turns out that they have
185
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,440
identified, as I mentioned, 8
different flay personalities.
186
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,680
And if you're open to it, I
would love to have you take the
187
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,120
play personality quiz live so we
can figure out your play style.
188
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,000
Sounds great, let's do it.
OK, great.
189
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,120
Should I go through the
different play styles?
190
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,680
If that is good precedent, then
yes.
191
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,960
I think so.
So there's the Joker, who brings
192
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,840
joy and laughter to any room.
The Kenneth's feet where your
193
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,760
body leads, the fun, the
explorer curiosity.
194
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,720
Is your playground the
competitor?
195
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,160
Games and challenges are your
jam.
196
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,840
The director you love shaping
the play experience, the
197
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,280
collector you find delight in
gathering what you love, the
198
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,720
artist or creator making things
is your kind of play and the
199
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,920
storyteller.
Words and imagination are where
200
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,760
you shine.
Yeah, I grew up with a director.
201
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,800
My mom loved to organize the
play, just loved it.
202
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,480
And I'd say my dad was probably
on the kinesthetic side, you
203
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,080
know, let's go play tennis,
let's go play basketball, let's
204
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,760
play baseball.
He was my coach and everything.
205
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,680
And he showed up in athletic
ways and just always wanted to
206
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,200
be thinking as that as a way for
us to connect, OK.
207
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,880
Very cool.
Now let's see what you are.
208
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,560
Yep.
OK, first question, you have
209
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:40,840
$50.00 that you have to spend on
one of the following items.
210
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,280
What do you get?
A ridiculous hat?
211
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,720
A pair of binoculars, a ticket
to a writing workshop or a set
212
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,400
of traffic cones.
I think a pair of binoculars.
213
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:58,320
OK, your new podcast is most
likely to be called It Started
214
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,000
with one My quest to complete my
collection the neighborhood.
215
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,720
Fascinating backstories I have
made-up for people I don't know.
216
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,880
You can't make a podcast about
that.
217
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,200
My journey in making abstract
art or how to do stuff.
218
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,480
Weekly Instructions for doing
stuff.
219
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,880
The neighborhood.
Fascinating backstories I've
220
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,560
made-up for people I don't know.
Sweet, you're already excited.
221
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,680
About that, I really, yeah.
Stay tuned.
222
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,960
A couple episodes.
OK, next question.
223
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,520
Surprise.
Your home suddenly has a new
224
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,120
spacious bedroom.
You immediately set to work
225
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,600
converting it into a space to
organize and display your
226
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,080
collection.
A dance studio, A decked out
227
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120
space for your gaming PC, or an
art studio.
228
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,480
If I have to take all those
literally, then it would be a
229
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,360
space to organize and display
your collection.
230
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,720
OK, I bet it had if it had said
some type of electronics if.
231
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,720
It was like a CrossFit studio
or, you know, elect, you know,
232
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,400
something that wasn't.
Your CrossFit stuff is kind of
233
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,400
your collection.
Yeah.
234
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,480
Cool.
OK, you haven't seen your long
235
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,640
distance best friend in months.
You pick them up at the airport
236
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,040
and take them straight to a
place you've never been before
237
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,160
so you can check it out
together.
238
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,280
Your latest eBay purchase for
your collection?
239
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,360
Show them your latest bargain
find from online classifieds or
240
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:21,200
show them a painting you've been
working on.
241
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,760
Place I've never been before,
but it is one of the best places
242
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,880
in the world.
Oh cool.
243
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,240
Yeah, you're so good at that.
OK, your new YouTube series
244
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,000
features you performing tricks
you learned in your circus arts
245
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,520
class, discussing the nuances of
a highly specific niche
246
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,840
interest.
Just three minutes of making
247
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,280
weird faces explaining how you
managed to beat a video game
248
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160
that you just came out of.
Explaining how I managed to beat
249
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,240
a video game.
OK.
250
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,480
Sorry that that just came out.
OK, three more.
251
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,200
Questions.
I loved that.
252
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,240
I loved playing games growing up
on N64 and the Wii and stuff
253
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,960
like that.
But my favorite was following
254
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,760
the book hacks about how to beat
those games.
255
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,280
Like the online guides.
I forget the website but that
256
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,360
was that was my favorite.
Cool, me too.
257
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,200
Super Mario hacks I loved.
OK, you work at an elementary
258
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,960
school now, but at least you get
to pick your position.
259
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,240
You're the librarian, art
teacher, PE instructor,
260
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,320
principal, or janitor that
everyone adores because you're
261
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,600
hilarious.
Interesting.
262
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,080
I guess I'm the principal.
Of course you are.
263
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,680
Everyone at your school or work
has to join a club.
264
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080
What club do you join?
The fiction writing club, Improv
265
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,000
group trading card club,
Marathon trading club?
266
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,480
Or I'm starting a club for the
people who think they shouldn't
267
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,520
have to join clubs.
Improv group all day.
268
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,080
Last question, you just parked
at your favorite City Park, what
269
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,200
is next?
Find some folks for a pickup
270
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,200
game of something.
Find a new hiking trail and give
271
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,400
it a try.
Go for a run and try to beat
272
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,160
your time from your last visit,
or go make up backstories for
273
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,880
the squabbling ducks.
Go for a run and try to beat my
274
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,280
time.
What?
275
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,880
Is my play type.
Your play type is explorer.
276
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,360
The explorer plays through
learning.
277
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,280
They want to know and
understand.
278
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,480
This type of play is a way of
orienting to the world as a
279
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,880
learner.
Explorer type play personalities
280
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,120
may enjoy leisure time spent
reading non fiction, traipsing
281
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,480
through a forest looking for a
particular bug or Fern, or
282
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,280
tracking tides to know exactly
when to time their best
283
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,880
beachcombing adventure.
OK.
284
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,120
How does that resonate with you?
I mean I did make a tides app
285
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,160
for our beach so that and not a
tides app but a beach flag.
286
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,240
App you did.
So that tracks.
287
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,000
I think that if you abstract out
the nature part, that's very
288
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,640
much me, yeah.
I don't think it has to be
289
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,560
nature to be an explorer,
because I like nature, but it's
290
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,040
not where I grew up.
I grew up playing on the street
291
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,200
or inside with my toys.
Yeah, yeah, I think nature could
292
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,960
be substituted for technology.
I also think that quizzes like
293
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,880
this are are fun and helpful to
show maybe your dominant play
294
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,840
characteristics.
Because I came up Explorer too.
295
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,200
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
296
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,720
But I would say I'm probably
like 60% Explorer, 20%
297
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,160
kinesthetic.
What about the 90% competitor?
298
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,200
I was going to give myself like
10% anyway.
299
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,840
Low key competitor.
Yeah, I love all of these
300
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,320
things.
And we'll link into the show
301
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,640
notes, to the quiz, and then
also to the little graphic that
302
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,320
they have on the way that adults
play.
303
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,480
But to me it's much more of a
love language kind of thing,
304
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,600
where maybe you have your
dominant love language, but your
305
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,120
top three or four are all
relevant too.
306
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,880
Because humans are complex,
right?
307
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,600
Sure.
So I don't know if you looking
308
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,720
at this little infographic that
I have in front of you, if there
309
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,640
are any besides Explorer that
resonate with you.
310
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,200
The storyteller I would say too,
I really do like making up silly
311
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,839
stories and improving with the
kids and just in general and.
312
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,760
Then what about thinking about
our kids?
313
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,800
Maybe we can certainly ask them
as well.
314
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,880
But.
They would say I'm the joke.
315
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,200
They would say I'm the Joker.
They would say you're the Joker.
316
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,240
That's just I know you Facetimed
every funny face today already.
317
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,240
Exactly.
Little kids and FaceTime emojis
318
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,800
are just putty in my hand.
Yeah.
319
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,880
And I think they would
definitely say that I'm the
320
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,400
director.
Right.
321
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,200
I do a lot of play galvanizing
if you will.
322
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,000
So there's a lot here.
What are we trying to advance
323
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,680
and take away?
So I think why this matters is
324
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,240
that knowing your family's play
personalities can reduce
325
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,960
resistance to play, knowing that
you're not forcing yourself into
326
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,960
someone else's play style and it
invites connection.
327
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,560
For sure, yeah.
So again, knowing your style,
328
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,840
knowing the style of the other
folks in your family, you can
329
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,280
say I see you, I'm going to play
with you your way for now and
330
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840
we're going to play my way
later, you know?
331
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:15,040
Usually we're thinking about
experiments that are measurable
332
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,840
and time bound.
Is that the case here or is this
333
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,440
something else?
I don't think so.
334
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,360
I think this is the most
intentionally abstract
335
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,320
experiment that we could ask
for.
336
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,440
I mean, I, like I said, the guy
who is the play guru hates
337
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,840
defining it and says that it
almost defeats its purpose.
338
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,400
He said that defining play is
like explaining a joke.
339
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,640
It kind of loses it.
So I keep going to this idea of
340
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,320
a playful state of mind.
I've heard it, you know, and Amy
341
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,800
Mccready's positive parenting
solution, she just talks about
342
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,240
it as the child state as opposed
to the adult ego state.
343
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,120
But it's this feeling of
playfulness, I think that you,
344
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:07,360
you know, when you were in it.
And So what I am asking, however
345
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,800
you want to structure the
experiment works for me, but is
346
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,880
to bring moments of playfulness
to your day.
347
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,640
And this is really an ask of me
to you.
348
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,960
Not just with our children.
That's great.
349
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,000
But I think for yourself and for
the two of us together, I think
350
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,600
we play when we're working out.
We love playing at work.
351
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,040
We love playing on this podcast.
But I was scared to ask you if
352
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,640
you would played Settlers of
Catan with me last week.
353
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,640
I know.
So if we could just lower the
354
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,920
barrier to entry there, that
would be great.
355
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,160
I think personally, selfishly, I
appreciate that.
356
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,960
Yeah, what's showing up here is
invitations for play.
357
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,520
So our kids all went to and two
of them still go to this amazing
358
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,200
outdoor nature pre-K program
called Sunflower Creative Arts.
359
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,560
And throughout the playscape
there are invitations for play.
360
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,520
Some are crafts, some are nature
based, some are adventure based,
361
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,800
but then they switch them up.
I'm looking at them funny
362
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,480
because crafts that they would
hate if you said that word
363
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,600
crafts.
They're open-ended invitations,
364
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,520
right?
So they'll put out a lot of
365
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,880
things.
I meant like putting out shaving
366
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,160
cream and like, you know.
But how you use them is up to
367
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,240
the personality.
That's the whole point is that
368
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080
they're not contrived.
Yes.
369
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,360
And so I'm wondering if there's
an opportunity for us to create
370
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,320
invitations for play for
ourselves, not necessarily for
371
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,040
the kids, but I know that you
have some plans when it comes to
372
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520
space, and I believe that's
going to integrate with what
373
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,880
we're talking about here.
Easter egg for future episode.
374
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,440
Yep, but also Greg, what do you
think the slack line is?
375
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,160
I know, but I mean for me, so
I'm thinking you are very good
376
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,840
at asking for what you need with
invitations for play for
377
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,440
yourself and for the kids.
Yes, Those things usually do not
378
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,360
appeal to me.
And so I think that if I can
379
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,360
look for some invitations for
play, which would be really nice
380
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,840
because it's not all on you to
to come up with those.
381
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,120
And you and I can talk about
what some of those invitations
382
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,360
for play that I would like to
engage in both for me and our
383
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,800
kids and for you around the
house.
384
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,480
I think that would that would
feel really like the right type
385
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,680
of experiment.
That's awesome.
386
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,160
I love hearing that.
Yeah, I would love, and I'm
387
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,840
happy to help you with this, but
I would love if we had some
388
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,480
invitations for play that appeal
to you around our home the way
389
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,000
that we do for me and the kids.
Whether we have a slack line or
390
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,280
a sensory swing or balance
boards or puzzles in every room,
391
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,240
board games around every corner,
there are constant reminders to
392
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,200
the rest of us that life is
play.
393
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,760
And I think we haven't
necessarily tapped in to what
394
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,640
puts you in that playful state.
And I would love to explore that
395
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,560
further with you.
Yeah, no, totally.
396
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,680
I think there's probably some
toys from growing up that I
397
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,120
could get down with, Lego sets
that we work on as a family,
398
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,960
just like the puzzles that we
work on as a family.
399
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,520
I think Legos are my version of
puzzles and even some relics.
400
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,960
Like I had the huge collection
of baseball cards and pogs and
401
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,360
all those things.
I love collecting things so not
402
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:40,480
saying that we need to collect
the baseball cards, but.
403
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,160
Collector is one of the types of
players, by the way.
404
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,320
Collector is one of the types of
players.
405
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,280
I mean, I collected Ninja
Turtles, GI Joes, Legos,
406
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,160
baseball cards, Pogs, you name
it, I was collecting them.
407
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,320
I.
Didn't know that about you.
408
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,160
How cool.
Yeah, fun.
409
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,440
I just love displaying them.
I loved having them out.
410
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,800
I love looking through them.
I think that we could extend
411
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,400
that to photo albums and
scrapbooks for the family,
412
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,320
putting those together.
That's something that I could
413
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,200
see being really good for us.
I mean, our kids love looking
414
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,320
through our wedding album,
right?
415
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,080
And it's really hard these days
with just all the photos on the
416
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,600
phone.
So maybe we could do some
417
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,680
printing and get a photo printer
set up or something like that.
418
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,280
Just that's fun.
Yeah, I love that idea.
419
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,400
Write that down.
I mean 3D printer would be
420
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,600
awesome too at some point.
OK, you're on a roll.
421
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,760
Well, you know, I just think
about these things that I'm
422
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,120
like, I've come up with lots of
exciting ideas for a someday
423
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,120
rainy day thing in my mind, and
this is bringing them out.
424
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,640
Yeah.
The time is now.
425
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,600
Yeah, for sure.
Cool.
426
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,880
Wow, Greg, I love that.
I love that we opened this space
427
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,360
for play and you jumped right
in.
428
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,440
I think it just opening the
dialogue about what it was that
429
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320
I like to do really was the
inspiration there.
430
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,400
So thanks for doing that.
Absolutely.
431
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,280
Yeah, it's cool.
I have one more note that is
432
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480
particularly impactful for
intergenerational play, and
433
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,480
that's spectator play.
So Doctor Brown talks about some
434
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,800
of his fondest boyhood memories
are around watching games with
435
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,080
his dad.
And so I, I don't want to
436
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,040
overlook that one as well, that
it's especially for
437
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,200
intergenerational connection,
Spectator sports can be a way to
438
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,080
regularly experience mutual joy
and share those experiences with
439
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,680
others.
Yeah.
440
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,160
This summer we can hit some of
the minor league games.
441
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,680
Yes.
I really do like baseball games.
442
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,240
We took Hunter with some of our
work colleagues to a baseball
443
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480
game and she had absolutely no
frame of reference for a
444
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,880
baseball game and loved it,
loved it, loved it, and we all
445
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,760
had a great day.
It was great.
446
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,080
So I think that that's also a
great way to bond and share
447
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,280
connection.
Yeah, cool.
448
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,840
OK, more to come I guess.
Yeah, absolutely.
449
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,280
I look forward to reporting back
on these experiments around
450
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,880
play.
Stay tuned for next time when we
451
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,440
will have some exeriments to
report back on.
452
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,520
Yes, absolutely.
All right, that's it for now, ye
453
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,240
all.
Right.
454
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,560
Love you, Goosey.
Love you, goosey.
